Where is Hogan on G&S reform????

[Boondock Saint]

I'm no plant nor am I a troll...

Maybe, maybe not. You certainly have a way with words, though.

what I see here are many people who are blindly following the same failed leadership on this issue year after year, session after session

That's funny. Leadership in MSI has changed quite a bit in the last 10 years. Not that I'd expect you to know that, but it's true.

and when things don't change they wring their hands, pat each other on the back and say "we'll get em next session" when the reality is no you won't.

What you (in theory) fail to understand is that the dynamics of fighting for your 2A rights are different in Maryland than practically every other state in the union. The realities are rather inconvenient, but instead of bloviating on the Internet for reasons that both escape and do not interest me, there are those among us who actually have skin in the game and work, have worked and/or will work tirelessly (for zero compensation) in defense and advancement of your fundamental freedom to own and carry a firearm. One of those things is really easy to do, the other isn't.

I desperately want a shall issue ruling..But I refuse to follow a group that has had ZERO success, criticizes those who would dare question their legitimacy,

There is an Ark full of fail here. To say that MSI and other state/national organizations have had zero success in Maryland is a profoundly ignorant statement. Either that, or you actually are a mythical creature that lives under a bridge with Sen. Mikulski. Again, easy to run your mouth, hard to do something.

and is led by a registered democrat...the very party that is responsible for denying us our rights.

Big straw man here, but you probably already know that. Democrats have nothing to do with taking your rights. Statists are in fact responsible. The letter after the name of the politician sticking his/her red, white and blue pecker in your rear is irrelevant. Attacking someone based on their political party of choice is intellectually fraudulent, at best. Get a clue.

Hell, MSI was founded by an Independent. MSI was never, ever meant to be a partisan organization. The 2A is meant for all of us, not just Republicans.

We need an organization that can thin outside the box...we need a group that's not to proud to beg the NRA for REAL representation, instead of trying to get their 15 minutes of fame...We need REAL dialogue with the powers that be within this administration. Time is short...the 2018 election will be on top of us before we know it and if history serves, there will be another liberal in the state house...

The problem isn't the NRA or its perceived lack of interest in Maryland. That's another inconvenient fact. MSI has spent most, if not all, of its existence begging its own community to get more involved, and it has largely been met with crickets. Advances have been made, but until people who are interested in advancing their freedoms get off the Internet and start doing more, it will remain a hellacious slog. Once again, one thing is easy, another thing is hard. Which are you doing?

I am a military and law enforcement veteran. I am a patriot and an Oath Keeper...I am NOT trying to cause trouble..I am HOPING that at least some of you will see that the issue is never going to change if you keep trying the same failed methods...Democrats in Maryland are the enemy of freedom...Why in the HELL would you put your trust in one???

Thanks for your service.

Being a gun guy behind enemy lines is a frustrating experience. Continuing to bitch about it, loudly, while spreading false information and just plain ******** doesn't actually help. Though, you know that already.

So, would you like to help, or not? You'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath waiting for an answer to this question.

 

[swinokur]

And no, before you start,.

Before I start? What are you referring to? I seldom get involved in these pissing contests for exactly this reason.

Both sides can state their point. I have never argued either side, but I fail to see how criticizing others' efforts results in any real benefit to anyone.

YMMV

 

[44man]

what we have here is frustration causing finger pointing from our side at others from our side because next to nothing is happening. yes the fsa was a terrible thing and stacking the hgrb is a pretty good thing but all in all very little is happening so everyone is frustrated.

 

[LoneRanger]

MSI has spent most, if not all, of its existence begging its own community to get more involved, and it has largely been met with crickets.

Shouldn't that tell you something? Either there really isn't any interest or MSI is doing something wrong.

I'm not going to tell you I know the answers because I don't.

 

[BeoBill]

Democrats outnumber Republicans 2:1. How do you propose meaningful change without getting Democrats on board?

I just want to take a second to point out that the Democrats' single biggest pro-2A reminder this year was the "Baltimore Uprising," as it's being called in some MSM outlets. I suspect that got a large number of DC Metro suburbanites thinking about "a gun," although they won't admit it openly. Just a thought...

 

[teratos]

Shouldn't that tell you something? Either there really isn't any interest or MSI is doing something wrong.

I'm not going to tell you I know the answers because I don't.

MOST gun owners are just casual gun owners. If you took their guns, they wouldn't feel like their heart was ripped out. I think the number of people who understand the importance of the Right are very small. People just aren't willing to put time and money into something they aren't passionate about.

 

[rambling_one]

MSI was founded by three patriots, a Libertarian, Republican and Democrat. Politics have NEVER played a role in leadership. I am a registered Democrat. Anyone want to guess my take on shall issue?

 

[Z_Man]

What we need is a governor with the balls to tell Frosh to pound sand, order his MSP Super to declare self defense G&S and let Frosh sue...take the case to the SCOTUS and let them tell the state the same thing they told Illinois and DC....SHALL ISSUE is the law of the land...

the problem with your statement is the governor, who ran on financial responsibility, would understand that this path forward would cost the state Millions of taxpayer dollars, and take years, likely beyond his governorship.

the actual means to fix what is wrong in this state is to support the effort to redistrict the voting districts to something that resembles sense and logic, instead of the most gerrymandered state in the union. we then need to educate the citizens of this state what the people running for offices represent, educate them on the election process, get people to vote during the primaries, put pressure on the comfy fat cats in the GA who suppress our voices, and suppress our rights as citizens (or as they refer to us, subjects).

If the mike and mike show, and their lackeys that are suckling the D party teat, believe that they have a chance at losing their primary, or losing to a republican, they would whip up a bill to remove the G&S scheme for carry permits in the state in a week. they are under the impression (honestly they are probably right currently) that IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THEY DO THEY WILL GET RE-ELECTED.

we need to get back to the system where when an elected official F's up, they are out of a job. All of the people (especially democrats) who have been in the GA for more than 2 terms are likely a part of the problem, so lets fight to have them voted out, even if it is a new whackjob libnut. it removes the seniority, it removes the power and it evens the playing field. a new GA member has very little power in comparison to one who has been there for 25 years. It changes up the leadership, and it may allow the gun bills to get onto the floor instead of decorating the inside of a cabinet.

Determine who the people in the GA are that kill us, and find any and ALL reasons that they should be voted out (not just 2A reasons) and share it with everyone who votes for them. maybe they also kill a law that your neighbor who drives a prius shops at whole foods, and has 8 different peace bumper stickers on her car finds important.

the 2A issues are important to EVERY citizen, regardless if they disagree with the 2nd amendment, and we must remember that this is of the benefit of everyone, even have the citizens of this state don't think so.

 

[dblas]

Of course this is just my opinion. We will never see shall issue in Maryland. Why? well the obvious barriers are in the way.
An AG who is fanatically anti 2A
A strong anti 2A lobby

coupled with:
A pro gun lobby (NRA) that has given up hope and only keeps a token rep in Annapolis to give the appearance of support. This is done for their benefit, not ours.

A governor who's only public statements on gun laws are negative, and is unwilling to state his 2A position for fear of causing controversy with the left, so he alienates his own base

A "shall issue" ORG that can't admit the liberals are the enemy because the president of the group is a democrat, coupled with an inability to think outside the box...trying the same failed tactics over and over every session...the very definition of insanity..

Legal precedents that have come about because of inept counsel

A general "malaise" in the pro 2A community.

I'm no plant nor am I a troll...what I see here are many people who are blindly following the same failed leadership on this issue year after year, session after session and when things don't change they wring their hands, pat each other on the back and say "we'll get em next session" when the reality is no you won't. I desperately want a shall issue ruling..But I refuse to follow a group that has had ZERO success, criticizes those who would dare question their legitimacy, and is led by a registered democrat...the very party that is responsible for denying us our rights. We need an organization that can thin outside the box...we need a group that's not to proud to beg the NRA for REAL representation, instead of trying to get their 15 minutes of fame...We need REAL dialogue with the powers that be within this administration. Time is short...the 2018 election will be on top of us before we know it and if history serves, there will be another liberal in the state house...

I am a military and law enforcement veteran. I am a patriot and an Oath Keeper...I am NOT trying to cause trouble..I am HOPING that at least some of you will see that the issue is never going to change if you keep trying the same failed methods...Democrats in Maryland are the enemy of freedom...Why in the HELL would you put your trust in one???

And no, before you start, I am NOT looking to form another group or lead the current one. I am simply stating the the one we have isn't working...There are already national groups that should be taking the reigns...like the NRA...where are they? one lonely lobbyist? Why is that? think about it...

That's twice you have mentioned a 2A (three actually) and not called it by name.

That's twice (three times now you have called out the leader of said organization for being a registered Democrat?

So I'm calling you out, have the balls to answer the question, are you referring to MSI and to me as it's President?

Come on, Veteran to veterean, have the balls to at least answer a couple of questions with a straight answer.

And if you don't have the balls to answer the questions (asked twice now), how about you grow a pair and man up and answer them.

 

[dblas]

Of course this is just my opinion. We will never see shall issue in Maryland. Why? well the obvious barriers are in the way.
An AG who is fanatically anti 2A
A strong anti 2A lobby

coupled with:
A pro gun lobby (NRA) that has given up hope and only keeps a token rep in Annapolis to give the appearance of support. This is done for their benefit, not ours.

Actually the NRA only has one lobbyist assigned to each state and most NRA-ILA lobbyists have multiple states that they are responsible for. So since every other state only has "one token" NRA lobbyist, then the NRA has given up on those states as well by your reasoning. The NRA-ILA lobbyist also has Delaware and Illinois as well as Maryland (bet you didn't know that). Not sharing that as an excuse, but just as an FYI.

A governor who's only public statements on gun laws are negative, and is unwilling to state his 2A position for fear of causing controversy with the left, so he alienates his own base

You see them as negative, I see them as Neutral at worst. Your opinion vs mine, take it for what it is.

A "shall issue" ORG that can't admit the liberals are the enemy because the president of the group is a democrat, coupled with an inability to think outside the box...trying the same failed tactics over and over every session...the very definition of insanity..

Great, then throw out some new ideas, and be prepared to be asked to pitch in and help. If you think the leader of the organization is an issue then bring it up with the BOD or whomever the leader of that group reports to. What are your personal concerns with the leader of any 2A organization being a Democrat?

Legal precedents that have come about because of inept counsel

cites please?

A general "malaise" in the pro 2A community.

Yep, this is the real issue in Maryland, and you and I actually agree on this one. How does it get changed?

 

[Petar]

I am a registered Democrat. Anyone want to guess my take on shall issue?

No! No one wants to hear from a Democrat... But seriously, if we only put this energy to a mutual cause, instead of fighting one another, Maryland would be better off.

 

[DC-W]

Registered DINO here as well.

Makes eyes bulge when telling antis that you're not a registered Republican.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

So the only people you want posting here are those that agree with the FAILED policies of what passes for pro 2A leadership? A democrat plant? hardly...maybe you should lay that accusation on the leader of your little "shall issue" group....after all, you're the one trusting a self admitted democrat to lead the charge....you feel comfortable with that?

Apparently you never heard of the DINO movement. Do a search fro free state dinos and you will understand why he is a dem. Until then, bite your tongue about the things you know nothing about.

 

[Schipperke]

The problem isn't the NRA or its perceived lack of interest in Maryland. That's another inconvenient fact. MSI has spent most, if not all, of its existence begging its own community to get more involved, and it has largely been met with crickets. Advances have been made, but until people who are interested in advancing their freedoms get off the Internet and start doing more, it will remain a hellacious slog. Once again, one thing is easy, another thing is hard. Which are you doing?

NRA is not going to waste time in Maryland. That should be a clue too. MSI started at least as a shall issue cause. Looking at shall issue states application participation, that right there should tell how small a cause carrying a gun for people is. Now look at Maryland, that is going to be probably half the per capita that is concerned with it vs. gun friendly states.

MOST gun owners are just casual gun owners. If you took their guns, they wouldn't feel like their heart was ripped out. I think the number of people who understand the importance of the Right are very small. People just aren't willing to put time and money into something they aren't passionate about.

I seriously beg to differ. Don't conflate carrying a gun with owning one. The crowds at Annapolis were there on the issue, fear that their guns would be taken, not a carry issue. Psychologically people tend to over value any possession they own, and taking anything away is not a trivial matter.


I believe a lot of angst and frustration over shall issue in Maryland is that most other states have it. Another complaint I kind of foster is it seems like Maryland goes out of it's way to grant rights to nearly every other minority, but not the group who wishes to carry.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

NRA is not going to waste time in Maryland. That should be a clue too. MSI started at least as a shall issue cause. Looking at shall issue states application participation, that right there should tell how small a cause carrying a gun for people is. Now look at Maryland, that is going to be probably half the per capita that is concerned with it vs. gun friendly states.



I seriously beg to differ. Don't conflate carrying a gun with owning one. The crowds at Annapolis were there on the issue, fear that their guns would be taken, not a carry issue. Psychologically people tend to over value any possession they own, and taking anything away is not a trivial matter.


I believe a lot of angst and frustration over shall issue in Maryland is that most other states have it. Another complaint I kind of foster is it seems like Maryland goes out of it's way to grant rights to nearly every other minority, but not the group who wishes to carry.

Boom. That is the real issue at hand.

I wonder what would happen if a minority group started demanding the right to carry and wanted MD to be Shall Issue. Would they cave to the minority group or would they treat the minority group the same as they have treated us?

 

[Matlack]

Boom. That is the real issue at hand.

I wonder what would happen if a minority group started demanding the right to carry and wanted MD to be Shall Issue. Would they cave to the minority group or would they treat the minority group the same as they have treated us?

Just had an idea. #blacklivesmatter I wonder if they would care if they were brought up on Jim crow, pointed out that it's for their protection, and it you know cops are evil.

The last one is a joke.

 

[redeemed.man]

Boom. That is the real issue at hand.

I wonder what would happen if a minority group started demanding the right to carry and wanted MD to be Shall Issue. Would they cave to the minority group or would they treat the minority group the same as they have treated us?

I have said this all along. If #BLM members, women, and gays marched on Annapolis demanding shall issue we would have shall issue within a week.

Sad.......

 

[dblas]

NRA is not going to waste time in Maryland. That should be a clue too. MSI started at least as a shall issue cause. Looking at shall issue states application participation, that right there should tell how small a cause carrying a gun for people is. Now look at Maryland, that is going to be probably half the per capita that is concerned with it vs. gun friendly states.

So, the NRA-ILA rep spending 3-5 days a month in Maryland since the legislative session ended is what? Her wasting her private time and not being here on paid time? The NRA spending $500,000+ thus far on the Kolbe case and prepared to spend more to go all the way to SCOTUS is what? Just a whole bunch of money they had lying around that doesn't need to be usefully spent?

MKAY.

I seriously beg to differ. Don't conflate carrying a gun with owning one. The crowds at Annapolis were there on the issue, fear that their guns would be taken, not a carry issue. Psychologically people tend to over value any possession they own, and taking anything away is not a trivial matter.

This is correct, and this why MSI has changed it's message and charter to encompass all things firearms and 2A in Maryland.

I believe a lot of angst and frustration over shall issue in Maryland is that most other states have it. Another complaint I kind of foster is it seems like Maryland goes out of it's way to grant rights to nearly every other minority, but not the group who wishes to carry.

As others have said, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Mr H]

Dan...

This thread proves a concept proposed by Ronald Reagan (paraphrasing)...

I won't say the Hogan critics are wrong... They just know so much that isn't true.

 

[Schipperke]

So, the NRA-ILA rep spending 3-5 days a month in Maryland since the legislative session ended is what? Her wasting her private time and not being here on paid time? The NRA spending $500,000+ thus far on the Kolbe case and prepared to spend more to go all the way to SCOTUS is what? Just a whole bunch of money they had lying around that doesn't need to be usefully spent?

MKAY.

Not a shall issue matter..

Did NRA cough up $$ for Woollard?