AR pistol regulations

[DoormanTNT]

My google-fu and search abilities must be lacking lately.

Could someone please guide me to AR pistol regulations.

Everything I am coming up with is pre-october or before.
Looking for 5.56, not so much "pistol" caliber.

I understand "virgin" or pistol lower, no vertical forward grip, and no stock (but brace is ok?).

What about min/max overall length?

Not lookin to do NFA, just complaint pistol build.

Thanks in advance.

Regs seem about as clear as pea soup.

 

[newq]

My google-fu and search abilities must be lacking lately.

Could someone please guide me to AR pistol regulations.

Everything I am coming up with is pre-october or before.
Looking for 5.56, not so much "pistol" caliber.

I understand "virgin" or pistol lower, no vertical forward grip, and no stock (but brace is ok?).

What about min/max overall length?

Not lookin to do NFA, just complaint pistol build.

Thanks in advance.

Regs seem about as clear as pea soup.

length is irrelevant. Nothing has changed. Everything is as it was before. The atf has updated its position on lowers and can be converted from pistol to rifle but not the reverse. Just makes sure that it has no stock although the sig brace is fine. And on the foregrip AFG's are fine magpul makes a nice affordable AFG.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

 

[clandestine]

You can buy an AR Pistol if its on the Roster. You can also add a SIG Brace to it and an Angled Forward Grip. Its not NFA.

You can also BUILD an AR Pistol (Barrel UNDER 16") that's NOT on the Roster by using a STRIPPED Lower (Any Caliber and ANY weight Barrel). If the lower ever had a Buttstock on it then you cant build it into a lower since it was a "rifle". Pre or Post October means nothing in regard to this. You can also add a SIG Brace or angled forward grip without NFA as well.

If you make the Overall Length of the pistol over 26" then you can add a forward vertical grip without being NFA. Remember the OAL is measured with the muzzle device removed. The muzzle device only counts if pinned.

 

[DoormanTNT]

Thank ya both.
It would be built on a stripped lower. So I should be GTG with that.

 

[clandestine]

Thank ya both.
It would be built on a stripped lower. So I should be GTG with that.

Remember that a short 5.56 has limited ballistics and a NASTY bark. If you want something short a 9mm and .300 BLK really shine in small packages and don't lose much with the ballistics.

If you want 5.56 then a 12.5" barrel is pretty practical in regards to blast and velocity. 7.5" is for fun. I wouldn't go below 10.5" myself.

 

[mopar92]

I thought if you wanted you could use a lower with a buttstock so long as it was never assembled as a rifle?

IE buying a complete assembled lower and swapping parts.

 

[clandestine]

I thought if you wanted you could use a lower with a buttstock so long as it was never assembled as a rifle?

IE buying a complete assembled lower and swapping parts.

That's a risk the end user would have to weigh. I believe in a conservative view regarding on how ATF would rule. If it has a stock its a rifle.

If there is other ATF rulings to show otherwise then Im glad to be wrong.

 

[dontpanic]

I thought if you wanted you could use a lower with a buttstock so long as it was never assembled as a rifle?

IE buying a complete assembled lower and swapping parts.

Nate posted an ATF letter to that effect. I cannot remember which thread it was in. It also had to be transferred as O or "other"

 

[clandestine]

Nate posted an ATF letter to that effect. I cannot remember which thread it was in. It also had to be transferred as O or "other"

I stand corrected then.

 

[Pinecone]

I would want to SEE that letter. If you can find it, great.

But BATFE position has always been, if it has had a stock attached, it is a rifle. And making a pistol out of a rifle is a No-No.

And since the lower IS the firearm, having a stock on it, without an upper, is still a rifle in BATFE eyes.

But, like MPS, BATFE is not always consistent.

 

[Hawkeye]

I stand corrected then.

It's the typical conflicting guidance offered on different occasions thing. In the past there have been letters that stated the "never had a stock attached" bit, but the letter that Nate posted specifically said "never barreled as a rifle" which could mean any number of things.

For me, I'd play it conservative also and go with the "never had a stock on it" guidance, because that's a little more cut and dried as to the features that make it a rifle.

 

[ducrider45]

It's the typical conflicting guidance offered on different occasions thing. In the past there have been letters that stated the "never had a stock attached" bit, but the letter that Nate posted specifically said "never barreled as a rifle" which could mean any number of things.

For me, I'd play it conservative also and go with the "never had a stock on it" guidance, because that's a little more cut and dried as to the features that make it a rifle.

I think that the key factor is that the lower was transferred to you as "O" (other).

 

[Sticky]

 

[clandestine]

If that's the letter were discussing, there is no way I would say a completed Lower with a M4 stock attached is ok for a pistol build.

The letter says a M4 receiver extension in itself is ok for a pistol build.

 

[Sticky]

If that's the letter were discussing, there is no way I would say a completed Lower with a M4 stock attached is ok for a pistol build.

The letter says a M4 receiver extension in itself is ok for a pistol build.

Just threw it in for evidence/argument... I would agree.. I would interpret this to say that if I want to build a pistol from a 'rifle lower', then it must never have had a rifle barrel or buttstock attached of any kind and.. I need a letter from the mfr certifying that to me as I don't know what happened to it before they shipped it to me.

To be safe, I would not build a pistol from a rifle lower, just too many gray areas!

 

[clandestine]

Just threw it in for evidence/argument... I would agree.. I would interpret this to say that if I want to build a pistol from a 'rifle lower', then it must never have had a rifle barrel or buttstock attached of any kind and.. I need a letter from the mfr certifying that to me as I don't know what happened to it before they shipped it to me.

To be safe, I would not build a pistol from a rifle lower, just too many gray areas!

I meant no harm my friend. I was just thinking out loud. I appreciate you posting the documentation.

 

[Sticky]

I meant no harm my friend. I was just thinking out loud. I appreciate you posting the documentation.

None taken... you wearing white today??

 

[clandestine]

None taken... you wearing white today??

O.D. Green today.

 

[Calengor]

IIRC, there's another letter floating around, and I can't find it at the moment, stating that a completed lower (even with stock) may be built into a pistol since it's never been barreled as a rifle.

 

[TxAggie]

IIRC, there's another letter floating around, and I can't find it at the moment, stating that a completed lower (even with stock) may be built into a pistol since it's never been barreled as a rifle.

There were two important letters that came out within the past 10 months.

- one stating that if a lower transferred as "O" ther is INITIALLY built as a pistol, then it can later be converted to a rifle and back to a pistol without ramifications. If the initial build was with a stock, then it is and always will be a rifle.

- a second letter stating that the Sig Brace is, in fact, a pistol brace and does not in and of itself convert a pistol to a rifle.