EP Lowers

[MULE-JK]

The definition of "manufacture": the making of articles on a large scale using machinery.

I don't think that would apply here. Is there a different definition for firearms?

If you had a damaged lower, would you not be able to repair it. If it was manufactured with a defect would you not be able to correct it?

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think an individual making changes to a legally purchased regulated lower constitutes manufacturing unless the change makes the lower non-compliant.

I am just an average schlub using a normal definition and logic to come to a reasonable conclusion, so in Maryland you can probably throw it out the window.

 

[RDavidP]

Cash only transaction, keep your mouth shut, door to the shop shut, sound proof the shop, and then don't mill the lower.

 

[BMW]

http://www.eparmory.com/product-p/blem-units.htm

56 blemished black in stock in case you want to keep an 80% lower in hand for your favorite "end of the world as we know it" scenerio.

 

[huesmann]

I recommend the judicious application of the Fifth Amendment.

I recommend the judicious non-application of the First Amendment.

 

[BMW]

I recommend the judicious non-application of the First Amendment.

That can be said about a lot of posts around here.

Stock is down to 25. They are going a lot slower than usual.

 

[huesmann]

Well, we MDers were the only ones with the urgency. Nobody else needs one Right Now, so sales have prolly slowed to the normal rate.

 

[E P LOWERS]

I can see nothing in the law that restricts 80%'s. Of course it is on you guys, I am not an attorney. Seems like one can still acquire them and if events dictate complete them then. We are still selling well in MD. Perhaps many have that in mind.

John

 

[glennc75]

There is nothing in the current regulations prohibiting the purchase of a piece of plastic. The problem comes when the person who bought it finishes (or manufactures it) into a 100% lower, which is considered a complete firearm. It's the manufacturing that is banned. For those like myself that picked up a couple of your lowers (which look great, and I can't find the blemish on mine at all!) and have delivery proof before 10/1, we're good to go because we were able to finish them so that they could be grandfathered in. The problem is for those who purchased after 10/1, and then it becomes a question of who has burden of proof. Do you have to prove that your undocumented lower was finished before 10/1, or would some prosecutor have to prove that you didn't. Usually, it's up to the other side to prove beyond shadow of doubt that you broke the law, not the other way around. Most people here have seen their rights trampled enough that they're no willing to make that assumption, and want to be ready for when the burden of proof is placed on the accused.

 

[aquaman]

There is nothing in the current regulations prohibiting the purchase of a piece of plastic. The problem comes when the person who bought it finishes (or manufactures it) into a 100% lower, which is considered a complete firearm. It's the manufacturing that is banned. For those like myself that picked up a couple of your lowers (which look great, and I can't find the blemish on mine at all!) and have delivery proof before 10/1, we're good to go because we were able to finish them so that they could be grandfathered in. The problem is for those who purchased after 10/1, and then it becomes a question of who has burden of proof. Do you have to prove that your undocumented lower was finished before 10/1, or would some prosecutor have to prove that you didn't. Usually, it's up to the other side to prove beyond shadow of doubt that you broke the law, not the other way around. Most people here have seen their rights trampled enough that they're no willing to make that assumption, and want to be ready for when the burden of proof is placed on the accused.

manufacturing is NOT banned. There is nothing in SB281 that bans manufacture, you can still build an HBAR

 

[glennc75]

Ok, technically you are correct. There is nothing explicitly stating manufacturing itself is banned. It does seem like they banned it in a very round about way though. The problem is the lower arrives as a chunk of plastic. As soon as you finish it, by definition it is now an AR15 that you did not own before 10/1, and therefore not grandfathered. Can you put an HBAR upper on it and say it's now a non-regulated long gun? Sure. But why couldn't you buy a full lower and have it transferred with a promise it will only ever be paired with an HBAR upper? The problem is that unless you buy the whole thing pre-assembled as a full rifle, the lowers seem to be treated as the worst case scenario of being a banned AR. Waaaaay too much grey area in the law, and you know the first judge that hears a case on this won't rule in our favor. Could you try to work it through on a technicality? You bet. Do I want to be the first test case? Hell no! I'm sure in the coming months, plenty of people will buy 80% lowers with no receipts on gunbroker or wherever. Those lowers will be finished after 10/1 and technically be illegal becuase they were not grandfathered. Probably nothing will ever happen, because it would be vritually impossible to determine when those lowers were bought or finished. Each person has to weigh the risks and accept them or not. Maybe someone could try turning in a finished 80% lower (if you had one that ran into a milling accident) with no serial number at one of those gun buy back programs to see if they would even take it. That could be fun. If they refuse it, could that be grounds that it isn't considered a gun?

 

[E P LOWERS]

ALERT!! Black and Zombie Blems in stock!

www.eplowers.com

 

[jpo183]

ALERT!! Black and Zombie Blems in stock!

www.eplowers.com

Curse you! You jumped the gun on me!

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Zombie green is sexy.

 

[BMW]

Be careful. The blemished EP Lowers I received yesterday had take-down pin holes that were drilled out of alignment. .030 on one side and .026 on the other. That is a little more than a blemish in my opinion.

EDIT: EPLOWERS (John) is working with me on PM here.

I'll keep you posted.

EDIT(2): Disregard. no warranty on blemished units. You're on your own even with holes drilled out of tolerance.

 

[MikeSP]

Be careful. The blemished EP Lowers I received yesterday had take-down pin holes that were drilled out of alignment. .030 on one side and .026 on the other. That is a little more than a blemish in my opinion. .

Are those the diameters of the holes? What are they supposed to be?

 

[teratos]

manufacturing is NOT banned. There is nothing in SB281 that bans manufacture, you can still build an HBAR

They why can't we buy stripped lowers?

 

[BMW]

Are those the diameters of the holes? What are they supposed to be?

No, I was just measuring the distance from the edge of the to the top of the receiver.

"EPLOWERS John" is working with me on PM here, so they stand behind their products even the no warranty blemished units.

EDIT: I stand corrected, no warranty, you're on your own even with holes drilled out of tolerance negating their claim that they can be finished with a jig.

 

[jpo183]

EP has really been great with response. I purchased some prior to Oct 1 and they have been great on shipping and everything!

 

[E P LOWERS]

Unfortunately we can't offer a warranty on blems. We offer blems at a great discount from our regular priced units. We are working daily to ensure that quality control issues are resolved to the point where we no longer have any blems.

John

 

[FlatsFlite]

Unfortunately we can't offer a warranty on blems. We offer blems at a great discount from our regular priced units. We are working daily to ensure that quality control issues are resolved to the point where we no longer have any blems.

John

John,

Let's assume you are a customer and in no way affiliated with EP Lowers. If you received a blem lower and needed to fill a hole in said lower and re-drill it to the correct dimensions, which commercially available product would you use? 3M epoxy, JB Weld ...

This could be helpful information.