Continue to support MSI?

[PJDiesel]

http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/getfile.aspx?file=29.03.01.06.htm

For all those fixed on the MAY part of the law, here is another MAY to consider, Letter "A". Scroll down to Letter "E". nowhere does it say MUST, or SHALL deliver the firearm. It says after the transaction. SO I guess the FFL does not have to EVER send in the paperwork or release the firearm after "NOT DISAPPROVED"

Very interesting indeed. Where are the legal eagles on this part.

 

[occbrian]

I think when reserved Members like Dave MP say things like this people should pay attention.

QFT.

 

[jpo183]

Toot away Norton, toot away ... you left a 2A legacy for all to follow.

Too many people fail to realize that we didn't get in this political predicament in the PRofMD overnight. Anti-gun liberals have practiced 'incrementalism' for decades here, slowly stripping away at our rights, 2A included. You sensed that early on, and like the patriots of old, you answered the call ... as so eloquently stated starting here.



But those rights, as slowly as they are retaken, shouldn't be discounted, nor should impatience cause us to misstep or step backwards.

"Trust in God and keep your powder dry" - Oliver Cromwell

Gosh I wish he could have read me a bed time story.

 

[hvymax]

Still haven't heard an answer to my question, how will we know if MSP is really working to process the paperwork faster? How will we hold the accountable? If MSP just puts a job posting up then they are technically trying to hire someone but if they don't and the case loads get worse what happens?

I think it is well documented that they are doing far less than they were a few months ago.

 

[Truthlesshero81]

So I guess we're in the "turn on ourselves" phase, huh?

 

[Mr H]

So I guess we're in the "turn on ourselves" phase, huh?

Some people don't handle frustration well.....

 

[hvymax]

The fight is far from over and any victories are far from complete. The choices are keep fighting, surrender or emigrate to America.

 

[tjv4163]

Re-open or re-file the lawsuit in a couple months.

But that's what I'm trying to get people to understand. All they said is they were going to take steps to hire more people... Them placing a job opening is taking steps but that doesn't mean they have to hint people and they are still abiding by the sworn statement.. No one has answered my question.

 

[Mr H]

But that's what I'm trying to get people to understand. All they said is they were going to take steps to hire more people... Them placing a job opening is taking steps but that doesn't mean they have to hint people and they are still abiding by the sworn statement.. No one has answered my question.

This is where everyone--MSI, AGC and MLFDA, among others INCLUDING citizens--has the right (if not the obligation) to hold any public entity accountable.

This suit--like it or not--was a critical next step to accountability. Sitting back and taking it is what got us here. Being comfortable with the crumbs we've been fed solidified their hold on our lives. Fearing reprisal for insisting that .gov follow its own laws and rules keeps us in the shadows.

I'm damned proud of what we have all accomplished this past year. We created a new atmosphere, and the PTB, I believe, really are quaking in their custom Italian shoes. This is not the time to let up... But we have to be smart and measured about it.

Not hammering you, but it's become tiresome to hear people say things hinting that the government is untouchable.

 

[tjv4163]

Not hammering you, but it's become tiresome to hear people say things hinting that the government is untouchable.

I'm proud of what was done also, MSI and everyone you mentioned did A LOT of work. I don't think the goverment is untouchable I think they will do whatever they need to to do f us over. That's why I asked the question that I did. I can't be the only one who looked at the statement and thought hmmm for them to abide by this all they have to do is post a jop opening. They never have to fill it and they will be doing exactly as they swore to do. Maybe Im wrong and that's why Im asking. I don't put it past MoM and Gansler to pull some somke and mirror stuff like that. I'm happy we finally got a real answer from MSP and I do consider what we got a win, I just don't trust the PTB.

 

[A1Uni]

I didn't read every post in this thread, so if I am chewing someone's cud again, I apologize.

I see the lawsuit as a substantial step forward. The State Police have said out loud that they cannot stop FFLs from releasing on the 8th day, not in those exact words of course, but that is what all the "legalese" means.

Why is this "substantial?" It is substantial because it is a tacit admission that they are the ones in the wrong. I read their statement as saying, "Even though we can't get the required Disapproved or Not Disapproved within the allotted time frame, dealers may release if they choose to.

Once it is firmly established where the source of the problem is, there is little defense if said problem is not then addressed. I see it as MSP throwing their hands in the air and giving up.

Now it is up to that brilliant manager in the Governor's Office (see his prison management track record for reference), and the Legislature to provide MSP with the resources to fix the problem.

If they don't, I have little doubt that more lawsuits will be coming down the pike, and the next one(s) likely won't be settled quit so amicably, and the other side will not have much with which to defend themselves, having already admitted that they were in the wrong and doing little or nothing to fix the problem. It really looks like a concerted effort to restrict and reduce gun sales outside of the legislative process at that point, and a clear 2A violation, just my opinion.

Baby steps, that is what it will take. Sure, we all want it settled our way in one fell swoop, but that is just not reality. Everyone should thank those who worked so hard to get something, anything done on this matter.

Maybe it was not as big of a step as we all wanted, but I firmly believe it was definite progress.

 

[Kilroy]

I think the goals of MSI are far too modest. While you guys are fighting about getting guns released after 8 days, most of America is free to take home guns the second they pay for them. That's what you guys really should be working towards.

Oh, and the 'We're working things behind the scenes, everybody calm down" was a terrible misstep. We should have gone straight pitchforks and torches in Annapolis this spring. Next year, scratch "Reasoned Calm Discussion" out of the playbook, ok? It doesn't work.

 

[teratos]

I think the goals of MSI are far too modest. While you guys are fighting about getting guns released after 8 days, most of America is free to take home guns the second they pay for them. That's what you guys really should be working towards.

Oh, and the 'We're working things behind the scenes, everybody calm down" was a terrible misstep. We should have gone straight pitchforks and torches in Annapolis this spring. Next year, scratch "Reasoned Calm Discussion" out of the playbook, ok? It doesn't work.

Ok. We'll work on eliminating the waiting period altogether. Forget about the fact that ND is taking 100+ days. That's trivial. It's much better to file a suit that will take 3 years to get through the courts and has a very low probability of being found in our favor

Next year in Annapolis, we should just go balls out. Torches, pitch forks, threats, yelling, and insults. That will be the best approach. We will leave nothing to chance. Why spend all that time making sure we are respected as an organization by everyone from the Capital Police to the elected officials? They may not have agreed with our position, but even our opponents were impressed with our professionalism. By the end of next session, we'll make sure that each and every one of us has been kicked out of the State House. We'll show them such venom that even our friends won't want to discuss anything with us. That will teach them.

 

[Truthlesshero81]

I guess the next group buy is axe handles and Guy Fawkes masks, huh?

 

[kalister1]

Ok. We'll work on eliminating the waiting period altogether. Forget about the fact that ND is taking 100+ days. That's trivial. It's much better to file a suit that will take 3 years to get through the courts and has a very low probability of being found in our favor

Next year in Annapolis, we should just go balls out. Torches, pitch forks, threats, yelling, and insults. That will be the best approach. We will leave nothing to chance. Why spend all that time making sure we are respected as an organization by everyone from the Capital Police to the elected officials? They may not have agreed with our position, but even our opponents were impressed with our professionalism. By the end of next session, we'll make sure that each and every one of us has been kicked out of the State House. We'll show them such venom that even our friends won't want to discuss anything with us. That will teach them.

MSP taking 100 days to NOT DISAPPROVE is trivial. It means absolutely nothing if they never again look at another application. They are not legally required to process that application in any time frame. They have stated that the LAW in Maryland does not require them to NOT DISAPPROVE any application before the firearm is released. Maryland Law allows for the release of the firearm after 8 days (PERIOD).
Suing the MSP for 100 days of waiting is like me suing the MSP because they refuse to provide a personal protection team to me 24 hours a day. They are simply NOT required by law to do it. It wold make me safer, but it is simply not the law.
Should I sue my Doctor because he does not make House calls? We would all be better off not sitting in a waiting room with a bunch of sick people, but it is NOT the law.
Suing over the May/Shall issue on permits would force the State to CHANGE the law in our favor. There is no need to change Maryland law, it allows the release without any action on the part of MSP.
Please explain to me why we need to sue the MSP again if nothing changes? Please do not use the stepping stone to "nowhere."

 

[Gambler]

MSP taking 100 days to NOT DISAPPROVE is trivial. It means absolutely nothing if they never again look at another application. They are not legally required to process that application in any time frame. They have stated that the LAW in Maryland does not require them to NOT DISAPPROVE any application before the firearm is released. Maryland Law allows for the release of the firearm after 8 days (PERIOD).
Suing the MSP for 100 days of waiting is like me suing the MSP because they refuse to provide a personal protection team to me 24 hours a day. They are simply NOT required by law to do it. It wold make me safer, but it is simply not the law.
Should I sue my Doctor because he does not make House calls? We would all be better off not sitting in a waiting room with a bunch of sick people, but it is NOT the law.
Suing over the May/Shall issue on permits would force the State to CHANGE the law in our favor. There is no need to change Maryland law, it allows the release without any action on the part of MSP.
Please explain to me why we need to sue the MSP again if nothing changes? Please do not use the stepping stone to "nowhere."

When they take on the responsibility of being the POC, then they accept certain requirements. If they continue to fail to timely process applications, they may be booted from the POC role (that may even be what they want). THAT would be awesome for everybody.

 

[Mr H]

Ok. We'll work on eliminating the waiting period altogether. Forget about the fact that ND is taking 100+ days. That's trivial. It's much better to file a suit that will take 3 years to get through the courts and has a very low probability of being found in our favor

Next year in Annapolis, we should just go balls out. Torches, pitch forks, threats, yelling, and insults. That will be the best approach. We will leave nothing to chance. Why spend all that time making sure we are respected as an organization by everyone from the Capital Police to the elected officials? They may not have agreed with our position, but even our opponents were impressed with our professionalism. By the end of next session, we'll make sure that each and every one of us has been kicked out of the State House. We'll show them such venom that even our friends won't want to discuss anything with us. That will teach them.

THIS!!

Kill them with kindness, people. "They" want nothing more than to point to us and say "See, I told you they were rabid gun nuts!!"

The gun cutouts, the Fawkes masks, the tacti-cuckoo outfits... all feed the stereotypes we have found DON'T help.

 

[teratos]

MSP taking 100 days to NOT DISAPPROVE is trivial. It means absolutely nothing if they never again look at another application. They are not legally required to process that application in any time frame. They have stated that the LAW in Maryland does not require them to NOT DISAPPROVE any application before the firearm is released. Maryland Law allows for the release of the firearm after 8 days (PERIOD).
Suing the MSP for 100 days of waiting is like me suing the MSP because they refuse to provide a personal protection team to me 24 hours a day. They are simply NOT required by law to do it. It wold make me safer, but it is simply not the law.
Should I sue my Doctor because he does not make House calls? We would all be better off not sitting in a waiting room with a bunch of sick people, but it is NOT the law.
Suing over the May/Shall issue on permits would force the State to CHANGE the law in our favor. There is no need to change Maryland law, it allows the release without any action on the part of MSP.
Please explain to me why we need to sue the MSP again if nothing changes? Please do not use the stepping stone to "nowhere."

IMO, the suit over the wait time had a favorable outcome. MSP said FFL's can release after 8 days without a ND. This does not violate Federal law either. Now that ball is in the court of the FFL. They CAN release. If they choose not to, go someplace else. Seems we are on the same page, there.

 

[kalister1]

When they take on the responsibility of being the POC, then they accept certain requirements. If they continue to fail to timely process applications, they may be booted from the POC role (that may even be what they want). THAT would be awesome for everybody.

Good point, never thought of that!

 

[hvymax]

IMO, the suit over the wait time had a favorable outcome. MSP said FFL's can release after 8 days without a ND. This does not violate Federal law either. Now that ball is in the court of the FFL. They CAN release. If they choose not to, go someplace else. Seems we are on the same page, there.

We won a go ahead and release we dare you. It was a Pyhric victory at best leaving us turning on each other.