Just Got A Response From Senator Cardin About DHS Ammo Purchases

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  • TOWcritter

    Self Sufficent Sovereign
    Canned as usual and not answering the question that was asked. What the hell is going on in this Country? Well? Too bad that the copy/paste won't show the difference in fonts between the paragraphs. What a joke. A Sad...Cruel Joke on the Country...I wish it was an April Fools joke but I somehow doubt it......:mad54: By the way...1.6 Billion rounds ordered by the DHS would equal 266,666 per officer.....wow....that's a bunch isn't it?!



    Thank you for contacting me expressing your concerns that the Social Security Administration (SSA), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have requested large quantities of ammunition. I want to assure you that these multi-year procurement requests are essential to fulfilling the agencies' missions and ensuring that our federal law enforcement officers are properly trained.



    SSA requested the standard-issue law enforcement ammunition for its criminal investigators and special agents who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA's programs and to respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees, and customers. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States. These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests. SSA investigators are similar to State or local police officers, and they are armed when on official duty. Additionally, SSA officers routinely participate in firearms training seminars where a large quantity of ammunition is required for completion.



    NOAA's request for ammunition came directly from its Office of Law Enforcement which is responsible for carrying out more than 35 federal statutes. The agency's jurisdiction spans more than 3 million square miles of open ocean, more than 85,000 miles of U.S. coastline, the country's 13 National Marine Sanctuaries and its Marine National Monuments. NOAA is also responsible for enforcing U.S. treaties and international law governing the high seas and international trade. Agents and officers are required to have 200 rounds in their duty bags, and twice-a-year firearm qualification and training calls for agents to use another 500-600 rounds. In addition, firearms instructors with more than one pistol may need more rounds in a year. In 2011, the guidance was that each agent and officer would need 700 rounds per year to meet these requirements.



    The Department of Homeland Security's ammunition procurement contract would supply ammunition to the more than 60,000 federal law enforcement officers who work throughout DHS. All of these employees are required to carry firearms while on duty, as well as complete regular training exercises. The quantity of ammunition that DHS contracts for is based on prior years' use and future forecasting. Additionally, the quantity of ammunition indicated in the contract is not purchased by DHS all at once, but is instead available to order as needed.

    It is vitally important that we enable our federal law enforcement officers to fulfill their agencies' mission and do so while being able to adequately train with their firearms to better protect themselves and the American people. From 2006 through 2010, there were 7,963 federal officers assaulted; 4 of these officers were killed. Three of the officers who were slain in the 5-year time frame were employed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Customs and Border Protection. One officer was killed in 2008, one in 2009, and another was slain in 2010. The fourth officer was employed by the U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and he was killed in the line of duty in 2008.

    I hope this information has allayed your concerns. Please do not hesitate to contact me in future on this or any other matter of concern.
     

    sailskidrive

    Legalize the Constitution
    Oct 16, 2011
    5,547
    Route 27
    While I understand your frustration with receiving a canned reply; I'm baffled why some people are completely obsessed with this acquisition.
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    While I understand your frustration with receiving a canned reply; I'm baffled why some people are completely obsessed with this acquisition.

    Because the amount of ammo purchased is enough to kill every citizen 3 x. Not to mention DHS just purchased urban tanks.

    Either their objective is to buy all ammo so there is non for civilian purchase, or they are preparing to quell.
     

    Hopalong

    Man of Many Nicknames
    Jun 28, 2010
    2,921
    Howard County
    Because the amount of ammo purchased is enough to kill every citizen 3 x. Not to mention DHS just purchased urban tanks.

    Either their objective is to buy all ammo so there is non for civilian purchase, or they are preparing to quell.

    The amounts initially reported were about 100x higher than actual because the reporter reading the acquisition form didn't know what each entry meant. It's also spread out over a number of years. They're buying lots of ammo, but it's much more consistent with training needs than 1.62 BILLION rounds.

    Now those armored vehicles and other interesting DHS buys? Those have me concerned.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,810
    Eldersburg
    Should go back and ask Cardin if the three DHS Border Patrol agents were killed as a result of those firearms connected with Fast and Furious.
     

    Ken Stanka

    Active Member
    Mar 6, 2013
    151
    Waldorf, MD
    The amounts initially reported were about 100x higher than actual because the reporter reading the acquisition form didn't know what each entry meant. It's also spread out over a number of years. They're buying lots of ammo, but it's much more consistent with training needs than 1.62 BILLION rounds.

    Now those armored vehicles and other interesting DHS buys? Those have me concerned.

    Your post is spot on

    I am pretty sure 1.6 billion was the amount covered by the 4 year contract. Further, because the contract is that big does not mean it has to be fully funded/executed, we always build "fluff" into contracts to address the unforeseen. With that said DHS is in line with their purchase schedule from the last several years.

    I do also find the vehicles interesting.
     

    BigBossMan

    Active Member
    Mar 7, 2013
    271
    Washington County
    While I understand your frustration with receiving a canned reply; I'm baffled why some people are completely obsessed with this acquisition.

    Using Cardin's figures of 700 rounds per agent at 60000 agents, that is 42 million rounds per year. They've purchased enough ammo to last for 38+ years.
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    Your post is spot on

    I am pretty sure 1.6 billion was the amount covered by the 4 year contract. Further, because the contract is that big does not mean it has to be fully funded/executed, we always build "fluff" into contracts to address the unforeseen. With that said DHS is in line with their purchase schedule from the last several years.

    I do also find the vehicles interesting.


    Disagree check this out. I did the research on this when someone made the same comment in my office to verify. ONe would fully expect an intial mass purchase then a tettering off and minimal resupplies.

    http://www.activistpost.com/2012/08/the-history-of-dhs-ammunition-purchases.html
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,217
    Why doesn't someone from the GAO just put out the information so that everyone can see it and put this thing to rest?

    Its simple math:
    # of armed agents x # of ammo needed annually = # of ammo needed annually.
    Multi- year purchase agreement = # of annual ammo needed x # of years of agreement.

    These numbers should all be verifiable and quantifiable.

    They could make this entire thing go away by just bringing forth the information, unless of course the numbers don't jive. :innocent0
     

    trbon8r

    Ultimate Member
    The amounts initially reported were about 100x higher than actual because the reporter reading the acquisition form didn't know what each entry meant. It's also spread out over a number of years. They're buying lots of ammo, but it's much more consistent with training needs than 1.62 BILLION rounds.

    Now those armored vehicles and other interesting DHS buys? Those have me concerned.

    Don't let all those facts get in the way of some good tinfoil ass hattery. The narrative sounds much better when DHS is getting ready to declare war with a bunch of .40 Glocks.

    Not to mention I still haven't seen the hiring announcement come out for the drivers of the armored gun confiscation vehicles. I'll be looking for job postings to turn up on USA Jobs any day now.

    WANTED: Driver of large slow vulnerable vehicle to shuttle enemies of the state to FEMA reeducation camps, confiscate firearms from citizens, and generally be a nuisance. Must be willing to negotiate tight city streets while dodging Molotov cocktails, incoming sniper fire, and improvised explosive devices. DHS funded healthcare package (you're gonna need it.) Generous retirement plan because we know you'll never live to collect it.

    I bet the applicants will be lining up for this one. :rolleyes:
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    Don't let all those facts get in the way of some good tinfoil ass hattery. The narrative sounds much better when DHS is getting ready to declare war with a bunch of .40 Glocks.

    Not to mention I still haven't seen the hiring announcement come out for the drivers of the armored gun confiscation vehicles. I'll be looking for job postings to turn up on USA Jobs any day now.

    WANTED: Driver of large slow vulnerable vehicle to shuttle enemies of the state to FEMA reeducation camps, confiscate firearms from citizens, and generally be a nuisance. Must be willing to negotiate tight city streets while dodging Molotov cocktails, incoming sniper fire, and improvised explosive devices. DHS funded healthcare package (you're gonna need it.) Generous retirement plan because we know you'll never live to collect it.

    I bet the applicants will be lining up for this one. :rolleyes:

    yea .40 cal would still make no sense in those quantities........... except most of it is .223 being purchased. Check my link above for the actual orders.
     

    Hopalong

    Man of Many Nicknames
    Jun 28, 2010
    2,921
    Howard County
    One of the columns in the original acquisition forms was something like "pallet size", and I think the value was 100. The reporter multiplied this by the total to get his total, but that's not what this column means. It just means that you're buying X rounds of ammo in pallets of 100, not that you're buying X pallets of 100.

    Seriously, DHS is doing enough suspicious stuff that we should seriously stop focusing on the 1.62 billion rounds bit.
     

    Ranger Tom

    Active Member
    Jan 28, 2013
    501
    Woodsboro MD
    "NOAA's request for ammunition came directly from its Office of Law Enforcement" to which I respond, why does NOAA have a Law Enforcement Office? What is the Coast Guard for?

    Why can't Social Security use federal marshalls? Who's monitoring this?
     

    BigBossMan

    Active Member
    Mar 7, 2013
    271
    Washington County
    "NOAA's request for ammunition came directly from its Office of Law Enforcement" to which I respond, why does NOAA have a Law Enforcement Office? What is the Coast Guard for?

    Why can't Social Security use federal marshalls? Who's monitoring this?

    I believe all Federal agencies have an Inspector General's division which has sworn agents.
     

    TOWcritter

    Self Sufficent Sovereign
    It's not about the AMMO people...it IS about the way that the question was ANSWERED by an elected Senator....you know...a Representative of the "People".....the answer was ********. That's why I posted it. No tin foil hat needed when a regular "Citizen" asks a simple question....his answer does NOTHING ........period...that's the point
     

    marko

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 28, 2009
    7,048
    unless of course the numbers don't jive.
    Oh they Jive allright, they just don't jibe. You see, Leftists
    eschew Math. And transparency:
    ask Cardin if the three DHS Border Patrol agents were killed as a result of those firearms connected with Fast and Furious
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,217
    "NOAA's request for ammunition came directly from its Office of Law Enforcement" to which I respond, why does NOAA have a Law Enforcement Office? What is the Coast Guard for?

    Why can't Social Security use federal marshalls? Who's monitoring this?

    Send your FOIA request to the US Department of Redundancy :)

    You'll like this one:
    The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) intends to purchase sixty Remington Model 870 Police RAMAC #24587 12 gauge pump-action shotguns for the Criminal Investigation Division. The Remington parkerized shotguns, with fourteen inch barrel, modified choke, Wilson Combat Ghost Ring rear sight and XS4 Contour Bead front sight, Knoxx Reduced Recoil Adjustable Stock, and Speedfeed ribbed black forend, are designated as the only shotguns authorized for IRS duty based on compatibility with IRS existing shotgun inventory, certified armorer and combat training and protocol, maintenance, and parts.
    Source - (it is from 2010 by the way)
     

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