Immediate answer needed: C&R and select fire

[kalister1]

Correct.

 

[rsideout]

So, C&R gets you nothing until you get through all the normal, exhausting, Federal hoops. Once it is all approved, then it can be shipped to you directly, as a C&R FFL holder. Correct?

Correct. The only real advantage here for a qualifying C&R NFA transfer is that you can have the firearm shipped from out of state directly to the address of record on your 03/FFL. Thus, you do not need to use an instate FFL/SOT. But this is ONLY after your Form 4 has been approved by ATF.

 

[6pack]

Thanks all. It doesn't sound like we got our amendment, though.

 

[kalister1]

Correct. The only real advantage here for a qualifying C&R NFA transfer is that you can have the firearm shipped from out of state directly to the address of record on your 03/FFL. Thus, you do not need to use an instate FFL/SOT. But this is ONLY after your Form 4 has been approved by ATF.

Read post 17 again.
A C&R FFL can accept a C&R Machine gun from anyone in any State, AFTER the form 4 is approved.

 

[K31]

Thanks to MotoJ we are working with Senator Jacobs and her C&R amendments to SB 281. They are debating it as we speak and we need a quick answer and I thought this was the quickest way.

Can select fire weapons be bought with only the C&R FFL? If not what else needs to be had?

Thanks,
Paul

Not trying to highjack the thread but this seems to be germane, do these amendments also include antiques and reproductions of antiques which I understand would also be affected by this SB 281?

 

[MotoJ]

Not trying to highjack the thread but this seems to be germane, do these amendments also include antiques and reproductions of antiques which I understand would also be affected by this SB 281?

My question too- resolved in another thread:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=2195181#post2195181

Antiques and replicas not affected.

BTW- thanks everyone for your help in this and other threads. We were able to help Nancy Jacobs draft an Amendment and bring a coherent argument to the Senate Floor to exempt C&R guns and gunners, but Benedict Frosh wasn't going to let his minions vote for anything he didn't approve.

We need to push pro-gun Delegates to exempt C&R when this goes to the House. Otherwise, no more cool C&R handguns delivered to your door.

 

[rsideout]

Correct. The only real advantage here for a qualifying C&R NFA transfer is that you can have the firearm shipped from out of state directly to the address of record on your 03/FFL. Thus, you do not need to use an instate FFL/SOT. But this is ONLY after your Form 4 has been approved by ATF.

Read post 17 again.
A C&R FFL can accept a C&R Machine gun from anyone in any State, AFTER the form 4 is approved.

That is what I said with one qualification. I said firearm, not machine gun, because other C&R NFA items can also be transfered. And I also clearly noted that this is ONLY after your Form 4 has been approved.

I didn't note instate transfers because having a C&R is not relevant for NFA items. If the C&R NFA item (or any transferable NFA item) is already owned by someone instate, then it can transfer on a Form 4 to you from the current owner without an FFL/SOT.

 

[Nixon]

Thanks for working on this. I would love to see the proposed amendment.

 

[rsideout]

Thanks for working on this. I would love to see the proposed amendment.

+1

 

[kalister1]

I didn't note instate transfers because having a C&R is not relevant for NFA items. If the C&R NFA item (or any transferable NFA item) is already owned by someone instate, then it can transfer on a Form 4 to you from the current owner without an FFL/SOT.

I did not know that. I thought they would qualify as a Regulated weapon by Maryland Law?

 

[K31]

Thanks for working on this. I would love to see the proposed amendment.

+2.

 

[MotoJ]

Here it is.....

Thanks for working on this. I would love to see the proposed amendment.

Here it is, attached below. There was a shorter one too, but I think this is the one that was submitted...

She also asked me for help with "talking points". I wasn't sure what that meant exactly, but I figured it was a sales job, so I sent this:

Hi Nancy,

I'm not sure what exactly passes as "talking points" on the Senate floor, but I came up with this-

First, a definition, then, why it's an important pursuit, and finally, why further regulation of C&R firearms and collectors is redundant and un-necessary.


Curio and Relic (C&R) collecting is the pastime of collecting vintage and unusual firearms, and is regulated by the BATF. An applicant for a C&R license must submit to an intensive federal background check, and pay a fee, after which the BATF issues the collector a C&R Federal Firearms License. Collectors must maintain a "bound book", in which they record all purchases, and thoroughly document all transfers. This book must be presented to the BATF upon request.

C&R license holders are historians of a kind. Curio & Relic collecting provides the study of the development of firearms (as well as the history of industrialization) with tangible examples of advances in mechanical engineering, as well as a range of sciences including chemistry (propellants & finishes), ergonomics (stock shape, sight picture, slings, etc.), optics (scopes), and design.

The collection of C&R firearms is a conservation of our military heritage, the histories of our military allies (and opponents), and the history of armed conflicts through-out the world. C&R firearms also represent many forms of the advancement of the world's technology.

Collecting vintage firearms connects one to the rich heritage of the United States, from before the inception of the Republic to the present, encompassing matchlocks of the first Pilgrims through flintlocks of the Minutemen, percussion cap Springfields of the Civil War, and up to the rifle that saved Democracy- the U.S. Rifle, cal. .30, M1 (Garand), which was referred to by General Patton as "the greatest battle implement ever devised".

Collecting vintage firearms helps preserve artifacts of U.S. and world history that might otherwise be lost to the smelter. These instruments of freedom deserve to be cherished as much as any documents penned by our Patriot forefathers.

I think you could emphasize the stringent background check that C&R FFL license holders must undergo at the hands of the BATF, the fact all C&R gun purchasers and transfers are recorded in the "bound book", and subject to BATF inspection, and the redundancy apparent if collectors are obligated to undergo background check and licensing with the MSP. C&R collectors are obviously highly law abiding citizens.

I hope this is helpful. I'll continue to think on it.....



I sent another note saying she could stress the C&R BATF parameters made straw purchases virtually impossible, etc.

In the end it went down without a wimper.

 

[Mark75H]

I hope the mere mention of FFL03 doesn't backfire on us

 

[kalister1]

What language in the 281 bill changes Maryland law on C&R purchases?

 

[Mark75H]

What language in the 281 bill changes Maryland law on C&R purchases?

Nothing, that's my point. Until this was brought up, our gungrabbing legislators had no idea such a license existed.

 

[rsideout]

I did not know that. I thought they would qualify as a Regulated weapon by Maryland Law?

No, NFA trumps here. But as noted, you are still going through ALL of the standard MSP sign off (if done as an idividual) and ATF hoops for the approval.

 

[MotoJ]

Nothing, that's my point. Until this was brought up, our gungrabbing legislators had no idea such a license existed.

The idea was to get C&R guns that had 10+ magazines exempted and to get C&R handguns and license holders exempted from the handgun license BS. SB281 will supercede C&R- the BATF rules say that State laws govern. So, no more handguns delivered to your door. Notice all the online gun shops that won't sell to NJ, IL, NY, etc, regardless of C&R? We'll be on the list next.

It might turn out that those shops would accept a license on file and mail guns that way, but that's nebulous at the moment, plus, what a pain in the ass.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I really want to be wrong!), but that's the way I read it.

 

[6pack]

That's the way I understood it too. This bill affects us all; don't hide under a rock thinking it doesn't.

 

[kalister1]

Maryland law requires a 7 day wait for a handgun and C&R does away with that now, why would things change?

 

[MotoJ]

Maryland law requires a 7 day wait for a handgun and C&R does away with that now, why would things change?

Before the language only applied to purchases, and only purchases in-state. You could move to MD with a previously owned handgun and not have to do anything. With the new law you have to register. That's why the fight over whether previous "live-fire" certifications will preclude having to take the stupid course.
Now purchase, accepting, possession, etc. requires the license and registration. Handguns are regulated.

I'm not a lawyer- I might be completely wrong about all this.
Anyway, I think it's clear the antis want it to be such a PITA to buy a handgun that no-one will bother.