Turning the "Why Do You Need an AR?" arguement on it's head

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Major03

    Ultimate Member
    I have yet to hear a concise, informed and intelligent counter argument to this question.

    My strategy is to turn the safety issue on its head.

    Interested in your opinions / feedback

    ============================================

    Case for why an AR-15 with standard capacity magazines

    I would like to begin by establishing some credibility on the subject of the type of firearms being considered in this bill. I am a Marine Corps infantry officer, and served both as an enlisted Marine and commissioned officer for a total of 10 years active duty and 4 years reserve. I have extensive training in both U.S. and foreign small arms to include; handguns, combat shotguns, assault rifles and machine guns. I qualified as expert on both the M16A2 service rifle and M9 service pistol. I am a lifetime shooting enthusiast, and continue to enjoy the shooting sports. Due to my experience, I would categorize myself as an expert in the employment of such weapons.

    Arguments regarding the interpretation of the Bill of Rights and the Constitutionality of the proposed laws aside, I believe that most Americans understand and support a citizen’s right to defend themselves within the boundaries of their homes / property. It is a common question nowadays to hear “why does anyone NEED an AR-15 or other assault weapon with high capacity magazines to defend themselves? They serve no REASONABLE purpose in our society. They have no place.” Why not use other tools for this purpose? Vice President Biden has suggested to the American public to use shotguns. Handguns are also commonly put to this purpose.

    I would like to address this specific question.

    There is a reason the Department for Homeland Security recently submitted a requisition for 7000 AR-15 variant select fire rifles with standard capacity magazines for personal defense. It’s the same reason why most SWAT or emergency response teams in law enforcement chose to arm their teams with such a tool. It is because it is the best tool for the job when it comes to effectively and safely eliminating a threat.

    In a scenario where someone is defending themselves during a home invasion, I think we can all agree that the safety of innocent bystanders is paramount.

    Precise shot placement is a key factor in choosing a defensive firearm for home defense. The combination of weapon and caliber must be such that it is easy and intuitive for the defender to quickly engage the target that is attacking them with as little chance of missing and hitting an unintended target as possible. This is of particular concern when defending oneself inside a building where innocent people may be located in adjacent rooms behind walls, and therefore unseen by the defender.

    Another key factor in the choice of firearm is that the projectile must be able to deliver enough energy into their attacker to incapacitate them, but also limited enough energy that the projectile will not over penetrate. The caliber choice should be such as to minimize the chance of the projectile exiting the intended target and causing damage to others. It should also rapidly lose energy if the defender misses their intended target, minimizing the risk to innocent people who may be in adjacent rooms and behind walls. It is a delicate balance to achieve.

    The combination of the AR-15 style platform and the caliber (.223 Remington / 5.56mm NATO) is ideal for home defense situations. It is both highly accurate, helping to ensure that the defender hits only the target that is a threat, and FBI ballistics tests prove it over penetrates less than pistol calibers / standard 00 Buck shotgun shells and higher powered popular hunting calibers. Both reasons are why SWAT teams in our country almost universally arm their entry teams with AR-15 variants, replacing the MP-5 sub-machine gun and its 9mm pistol cartridge as the weapon of choice.

    Handguns, a popular choice for many Americans, require a much higher degree of training to accurately and safely use. By their nature, they have short barrels and therefore a very short site radius. This means that very minute variances in alignment of the sites produces great variances in where the bullet impacts. In layman’s terms, it’s much harder to align your sites and to hit what you’re aiming at. This is difficult to do under perfect conditions with a stationary target; it is exceptionally difficult to do under duress and an active target. Their compact size, which makes them very desirable for concealment purposed, proves to be their shortcoming in a home defense situation, when concealment is moot.

    Shotguns, another popular choice for a defensive weapon, are also inherently less precise. A shotgun, depending on the shell loaded, will fire multiple projectiles with each pull of the trigger. At ranges inside of 20m, the shot pattern will be tight enough to still require the same amount of aiming as the rifle, however the ergonomics of the weapon are worse and the sites are typically inferior to a rifle, making the shotgun harder to aim accurately. Any further than 20m, and the shot loses lethality and the pattern spreads to a degree that the pattern may completely miss a target that is only partially exposed behind cover. Due to multiple projectiles being fired, a miss can result in greater opportunity in hitting innocent bystanders. If using a pump action shotgun, follow up shots are slower and usually require the shooter to reestablish their site alignment before a safe follow up shot can be safely fired. When loaded with shot adequate to incapacitate an attacker, the shotgun produces far more recoil, which makes the shotgun more intimidating to train with and learn to use safely for people with smaller physiques, and the recoil also makes accurate follow up shots slower.

    When you divorce emotion and look at the facts, when one chooses to exercise the right to protect and defend themselves and those they love, choosing an AR-15 style semi-automatic firearm is the safest, most ethical and most reasonable choice.

    Major J E Farley, USMCR
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    Why does anybody need a NASCAR racecar? Why does anybody need a top fuel dragster? If motorsports were banned gas prices would drop from reduced demand.
    People are always OK banning everybody else's thing. Your thing might be diddling jelly doughnuts but as long as you are not trying to pass them off as Bavarian Jelly Cremes it's nobodies business what you do with your doughnuts.
     

    SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    In the hands of evil people and the eyes of libtards. They are assault weapons.

    In the hands of good people. They are defensive weapons and tools of freedom.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,840
    Bel Air
    What we would like is a "bumper sticker" answer to the "Why do you need an AR?" question. Unfortunately, that does not seem to exist. The answer cannot be given in one sentence. Look how long the OP's response is. While a good response, it is not a quick comeback to the question.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,840
    Bel Air
    Why do I need to justify how I exercise my rights to anyone so long as I am not abusing them to inflict harm on others?


    That is the explanation that is needed. Most people do not think of this as a Civil Right.
     

    Gbh

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 25, 2012
    2,260
    Why do I need to justify how I exercise my rights to anyone so long as I am not abusing them to inflict harm on others?

    Agreed.

    The anti's and possibly the fence-sitters see that the AR15 keep showing up as the weapon of choice in mass shootings.

    We do need a clear answer to the question "why is it that AR15's keep showing up as the weapon of choice in mass shootings?"
     

    Justin B.C.

    Walken is a scary clown!!
    Dec 25, 2012
    892
    This is a response I made to someone who is an anti who also owns a handgun, and feels that it is all you need. Keep in mind, I am somewhat new to the gun world with the exception of my military training, but I tried to explain the best way I knew how:

    "Why do I need an AR or AK or whatever? Because I need the best tool for the most jobs; the rifle is modular, which allows me to configure it to be the most effective for what I need. Hunting? Switch out the upper for a long 20" barrel chambered in .308; home defense? Short barrel carbine style in .223/5.56 with larger magazine for multiple shots, and less chance of penetrating walls vs the large caliber, yet still have enough power to be effective against multiple attackers; sport/target shooting? Longer steel barrel chambered in whatever I use for that for greater precision; natural disaster, riots, etc? Guess what, I now have a defensive weapon capable of defending my family and property (LA Riots, anyone? How about Katrina?) while the government gets its head out of its fourth point of contact and restores order. You don't buy a mallet and a crowbar when you need to knock in a bunch of nails (or pry them out), you buy a hammer because it is a multi-use tool that can fill various functions. The same analogy can be made using a smart phone, or a laptop (why carry a calculator, a planner, phone contacts, etc when a smart phone lets you do all that and make calls?)."
     

    J-Dog

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2012
    1,789
    Well written.

    I'm sure you've noticed by now, but the header, "Case for why an AR-15 with standard capacity magazines", is incomplete.
     

    widowman

    Active Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    101
    I for one am sick of hearing the argument that the accessories (pistol grip(s), flash hiders, adjustable stocks, barrel shrouds, ect.) on an ar-15 style rifle are cosmetic and not functional. While I will say that they do not make the rifle more lethal, they are very functional.

    I don't even see how a pistol grip on an AR-15 could be considered an accessory, it is part of the stock, without it the weapon would be without a functional grip. And a forward mounted grip, aids the shooters in the controlling the rifle. The grip(s) result in superior ergonomics when compared to classic rifle designs allowing the shooter to mount the weapon in a more natural fashion. They are not designed to allow shooting from the hip as DiFi would claim.

    Flash hiders or flash suppressors help reduce the chances of the shooter being temporarily blinded by the flash from burning gases when existing the muzzle, in low light conditions. I sure would like to be able to see when I'm defending myself.

    Adjustable stocks allow the user to quickly and easily customize the rifles length of pull to fit their body size, account for clothing thickness, or allow multiple size family members to use the same rifle. It's not about making the weapon more concealable, when a handgun would be a much better option.

    Barrel shrouds are used to prevent accidental burns from a hot barrel, a safety feature. They were not designed to allow the user to hold the barrel so that they can "spray fire from the hip".

    Also, one of the most popular items to attach to an AR-15 is a flashlight which gives a hands free light source to allow the user to make a proper identification of the target, and in the case of many of today's models, blind the attacker. I know of no classic rifle design that allows for an easy mounting of a light.
     
    Last edited:

    rem87062597

    Annapolis, MD
    Jul 13, 2012
    641
    I like asking why they need the first amendment. The media hypes these people up and enables them by giving them constant media coverage, therefore encouraging and endless string of mass shootings. Clearly we need "common sense" restrictions on freedom of speech.

    I love this one because a lot of the people that are the most vocal for the first amendment also hate the second for some reason (the ACLU crowd). It puts them on the defensive and allows you to point out hypocrisy.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    275,603
    Messages
    7,288,045
    Members
    33,487
    Latest member
    Mikeymike88

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom