Stretching 6.5 Grendel

[DavidA]

That could make it pretty challenging to develop loads that work well in both rifles, although Berger apparently thinks there is a .030-.040" wide seating depth accuracy node for secant ogive bullets.

How to Load a VLD Bullet

You don't need to be an advanced hand loader to load VLD bullets, just follow these simple steps and you'll be shooting vlds in no time!

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That is reason to go to the Berger Hybrids. The RDF’s which I have 500 of each 130’s and 140’s are finicky as hell. I was watching a video where a guy was trying to get 130 RDF’s to shoot. Loading them at 2.28 I believe any hoot he was about to give up and he decided to load them at 2.300. He had to individually feed them . Out of now where the bullets went from 2 MOA to just under 1 MOA. So they are finicky.

On the Nosler forum I was chatting with a guy about making a 260 rem load that would work in both of my rifles, one for my gas LR308, and for my 260 rem in a 700 action. He did not even hesitate “ Berger Hybrid will do the trick a lot less sensitive to seating depth from lands. He had personal experience doing just that.

So I a Berger 130 tactical hybrid has a g7 bc of .287 where as the 130 RDF is .307 so your giving up some legs for accuracy. At 1,000 yds with 10 mph cross wind it another 3” drift 79 vs 82” for the hybrid.

I’m going to give the RDF’s a try though. Plan to load them 2.370. This will put me .005 off the lands in the 24” barrel , just about kissing them and .0037 of lands in the 20” . So we shall see. If it does not work I may get 100 Hybrids and give them a whirl.

At 2,599 fps the Hybrid is transonic ( ~ 1,236 fps) at 1,050 yds so it’s still on paper a 1,000 yd gun . The 130 RDF at 2,599 is transonic at 1,120 yds so 70 yds further . Not a big deal. At transonic speed they both have 429 ft lbs of retained energy.

Either of these loads spanks a 6mm ARC out of a 24” barrel at 2,739 fps 109 gr ELD M . Which goes transonic at 1,170 yds but only has 368 ft lbs of energy. The trade off is 6mm ARC less recoil, drift and drop are within 2 milrads of each other with the 130 gr RDF giving the best performance at 1,000 yards by 1” (71” vs 72”) drift but it has 30” more drop because of it slower initial velocity.

You give up a little recoil though in the Grendel. The 6mm Arc shooting the 109 gr ELDM , 30 gr powder in a 13 lbs rifle gives you 4.91 lbs

The Grendel firing a 130 gr , 30 gr powder 13 lbs rifle gives you 5.8 lbs so .9 lbs more recoil energy. Nothing. Or almost nothing. Regardless it going to take work and Speacial mags to do it to accommodate the extra length.

Either way the difference between both rounds is really close but the energy on target always goes to the Grendel.


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[4g64loser]

That is reason to go to the Berger Hybrids. The RDF’s which I have 500 of each 130’s and 140’s are finicky as hell. I was watching a video where a guy was trying to get 130 RDF’s to shoot. Loading them at 2.28 I believe any hoot he was about to give up and he decided to load them at 2.300. He had to individually feed them . Out of now where the bullets went from 2 MOA to just under 1 MOA. So they are finicky.

On the Nosler forum I was chatting with a guy about making a 260 rem load that would work in both of my rifles, one for my gas LR308, and for my 260 rem in a 700 action. He did not even hesitate “ Berger Hybrid will do the trick a lot less sensitive to seating depth from lands. He had personal experience doing just that.

So I a Berger 130 tactical hybrid has a g7 bc of .287 where as the 130 RDF is .307 so your giving up some legs for accuracy. At 1,000 yds with 10 mph cross wind it another 3” drift 79 vs 82” for the hybrid.

I’m going to give the RDF’s a try though. Plan to load them 2.370. This will put me .005 off the lands in the 24” barrel , just about kissing them and .0037 of lands in the 20” . So we shall see. If it does not work I may get 100 Hybrids and give them a whirl.

At 2,599 fps the Hybrid is transonic ( ~ 1,236 fps) at 1,050 yds so it’s still on paper a 1,000 yd gun . The 130 RDF at 2,599 is transonic at 1,120 yds so 70 yds further . Not a big deal. At transonic speed they both have 429 ft lbs of retained energy.

Either of these loads spanks a 6mm ARC out of a 24” barrel at 2,739 fps 109 gr ELD M . Which goes transonic at 1,170 yds but only has 368 ft lbs of energy. The trade off is 6mm ARC less recoil, drift and drop are within 2 milrads of each other with the 130 gr RDF giving the best performance at 1,000 yards by 1” (71” vs 72”) drift but it has 30” more drop because of it slower initial velocity.

You give up a little recoil though in the Grendel. The 6mm Arc shooting the 109 gr ELDM , 30 gr powder in a 13 lbs rifle gives you 4.91 lbs

The Grendel firing a 130 gr , 30 gr powder 13 lbs rifle gives you 5.8 lbs so .9 lbs more recoil energy. Nothing. Or almost nothing. Regardless it going to take work and Speacial mags to do it to accommodate the extra length.

Either way the difference between both rounds is really close but the energy on target always goes to the Grendel.


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Haven't done the Grendel thing but you are exactly on point t with the hybrid 130 vs the rdf. I have 130 and 140rdf loads in a 260 that hammer but the 130s took some dicking around. The 140s I either got real lucky or they are less twitchy. The 130 hybrids aren't as "insensitive " as some people say but they sure are more forgiving than rdf.

Berger knows more than I do, obviously, but they talk about a window for vld tuning and that hasn't been my experience. I generally start jammed with heavy neck tension. To get them to shoot off lands, I found a VERY narrow window, less than .020, in both cases. I stick to jamming them.

 

[DavidA]

Haven't done the Grendel thing but you are exactly on point t with the hybrid 130 vs the rdf. I have 130 and 140rdf loads in a 260 that hammer but the 130s took some dicking around. The 140s I either got real lucky or they are less twitchy. The 130 hybrids aren't as "insensitive " as some people say but they sure are more forgiving than rdf.

Berger knows more than I do, obviously, but they talk about a window for vld tuning and that hasn't been my experience. I generally start jammed with heavy neck tension. To get them to shoot off lands, I found a VERY narrow window, less than .020, in both cases. I stick to jamming them.

I am starting to gather that that is exactly where I am heading.


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[4g64loser]

I am starting to gather that that is exactly where I am heading.


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Keep us updated. I don't do Grendel but I'm always curious. Always figured that if I did one, I'd opt for a boltgun and throat it for 90 and 100 nosler.

I'm actually toying with the idea of a 260 tube that's a 12 twist and throated for the 100 noslers. CC for fun and groundhogs and BTip or partition for deer. Assuming that nosler ever has 100 partitions again. My current tube on that rifle is a 9 twist Brux and I'm running 140rdf. Last time I had it out. Four rounds fired at 400 to finish up a box of 50. Didn't measure but the spray paint cap provides reference for size.

 

[DavidA]

Keep us updated. I don't do Grendel but I'm always curious. Always figured that if I did one, I'd opt for a boltgun and throat it for 90 and 100 nosler.

I'm actually toying with the idea of a 260 tube that's a 12 twist and throated for the 100 noslers. CC for fun and groundhogs and BTip or partition for deer. Assuming that nosler ever has 100 partitions again. My current tube on that rifle is a 9 twist Brux and I'm running 140rdf. Last time I had it out. Four rounds fired at 400 to finish up a box of 50. Didn't measure but the spray paint cap provides reference for size.
View attachment 434211
View attachment 434212

Wow that things a shooter


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[Bountied]

I'm one of many who has had hornady garbage issues. My issues with them are many but the one you are probably referring to is when I was blowing up 75hpbt. 9 twist bbl, 22-250ai. I went to Nosler and the problems went away. Sierras worked too but the nosler 53 and 55 and 69 pills all hammered and 55 blitzkings were unobtainable.

I'll say that if you cruise precision rifle shooting oriented forums you will see plenty of people airing dirty laundry. I've seen the factory loaded 6.5 creed stuff puff in midair. I was on glass. I've definitely seen it happen with guys reaching for top speed handloading. Most are running 8 twist tubes, the creedmoor standard. There's probably some guys with 7.5 twists that have popped em as well. I recently let a student shoot some hornady match ammo in on of my rifles. The barrel doesn't have 700 rounds on it yet and never coppers up. One box of hornady fugged that all up. Never again. Their jackets are garbage.

To be absolutely transparent, bullet blow up is NOT exclusively a hornady issue. The old berger bullets tended to pop in 6.5-284 F open guns, especially in Krieger tubes. Guys used Sierras and had no issues. Berger now offers the "target" and."hunting" versions of their VLDs. Jackets are the major difference based on sectioning some. If you kept the VLD 140s at 260 speeds, no issues. The extra horsepower of the 284 case, coupled with the sharp krieger lands, was a bit too much. My 6 Bitchslap (6-284 Improved) barrels wouldn't run VLDH 105s. They exploded. The 105 hybrid target, just fine. Thicker jacket. Ditto nosler and Sierra 107s. Hornady is unique (in my experience) in having these issues in factory ammo and when loading their projectiles in cases they are expressly intended for. Hornady "tech" told me there was no upper limit for their 75s. This is inherently false as there is ALWAYS an upper limit for velocity it is simply that most people are never going to hit it as it would require a case that is overcome to the "practical joke" level for a well constructed bullet. In the spirit of fairness, I once tried to "pop" nosler Btip varmint pills in 22-250ai barrels. One 14 twist pipe would run the 40s up to over 4400. They loved it. I tried 55s in a 9 twist to see if upping the RPM would do what sheer velocity wouldn't. Nope. They worked fine and actually seemed a bit more violent on impact. Sample size was small so I can't call that a real conclusion.

I'll keep an eye out for these issues. I am running factory loads in 6.5cm and haven't seen issues. If I try to push the velocity with some hot reloads I'll take note of any issues. Thanks for the info. I know you know what you're talking about.

 

[4g64loser]

Wow that things a shooter


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It does OK if I'm doing my bit. That was in setting sun. And I was standing up behind a table.to shoot. From prone, bag and.bipod, in best air conditions it has gone 10/10 popping clays on the 500yd berm. My current "hunting" rifle. The 140rdf will get it done.

I'll keep an eye out for these issues. I am running factory loads in 6.5cm and haven't seen issues. If I try to push the velocity with some hot reloads I'll take note of any issues. Thanks for the info. I know you know what you're talking about.

Well, when hornady went from the brown cardboard ammo boxes to the slick white boxes, they dropped the pressure/velocity of the 140ELDm load. It seems to be about 100fps slower, based on side by side chrono testing. Take what you want from that data.

 

[Growler215]

That could make it pretty challenging to develop loads that work well in both rifles, although Berger apparently thinks there is a .030-.040" wide seating depth accuracy node for secant ogive bullets.

How to Load a VLD Bullet

You don't need to be an advanced hand loader to load VLD bullets, just follow these simple steps and you'll be shooting vlds in no time!

bergerbullets.com

So I tried the Berger VLD seating depth test linked in above post with 123 gr ELD-M today (haven't been able to find the 120 gr Berger 6.5mm bullets). Hey, they're both secant ogive, right? Unfortunately I'm not an F-class shooter, nor is my AR an F-class rifle. And Hornady's aren't Berger's, either.

Needless to say, I didn't really get the "one of these 4 CBTOs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin" results Berger discussed. I started .008" off the lands, and increased in .040" jumps. Still, almost every group was sub-moa, and I haven't done any tuning of the charge weight yet; I just picked a low value (24.0 gr A2460) and used it throughout. So there is still some hope for these bullets.

 

[DavidA]

So I tried the Berger VLD seating depth test linked in above post with 123 gr ELD-M today (haven't been able to find the 120 gr Berger 6.5mm bullets). Hey, they're both secant ogive, right? Unfortunately I'm not an F-class shooter, nor is my AR an F-class rifle. And Hornady's aren't Berger's, either.

Needless to say, I didn't really get the "one of these 4 CBTOs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin" results Berger discussed. I started .008" off the lands, and increased in .040" jumps. Still, almost every group was sub-moa, and I haven't done any tuning of the charge weight yet; I just picked a low value (24.0 gr A2460) and used it throughout. So there is still some hope for these bullets.

Awesome shooting


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