Semi-Auto SBRs to be banned after October 1?

[Beemerguy]

I went to my FFL to pick up my latest pistol on Monday, and reminded them that my next purchase, in a few months, will be a short-barreled Thompson M1 we discussed previously.

When we first talked about this, my FFL insisted that Class 3 weapons such as the Thompson M1 SBR were under the purview of the BATFE only, that the State of Maryland would have no involvement in the transfer, and in fact would not even be made aware of it.

Yesterday they told me that the way Maryland's new law is written, the MSP is interpreting it to apply to SBRs, meaning that semi-auto SBRs will be banned after October 1, and if I wanted one, I needed to have a purchase order completed by that date.

I wasn't really ready to buy right now, but I went online, found what I was looking for, and bought it.

If you've been thinking about a Class 3 rifle like this, you might want to act before October 1...

 

[Markp]

I went to my FFL to pick up my latest pistol on Monday, and reminded them that my next purchase, in a few months, will be a short-barreled Thompson M1 we discussed previously.

When we first talked about this, my FFL insisted that Class 3 weapons such as the Thompson M1 SBR were under the purview of the BATFE only, that the State of Maryland would have no involvement in the transfer, and in fact would not even be made aware of it.

Yesterday they told me that the way Maryland's new law is written, the MSP is interpreting it to apply to SBRs, meaning that semi-auto SBRs will be banned after October 1, and if I wanted one, I needed to have a purchase order completed by that date.

I wasn't really ready to buy right now, but I went online, found what I was looking for, and bought it.

If you've been thinking about a Class 3 rifle like this, you might want to act before October 1...

Or change your game plan to finally justify that full auto version that Maryland clearly prefers you have.

M

 

[Beemerguy]

Or change your game plan to finally justify that full auto version that Maryland clearly prefers you have.

M

You know, that is the really dumb thing about this situation, that a full-auto Thompson is okay but the semi-auto version is banned. This just goes to show you what happens when people who don't know a damned thing about firearms decide to draft new gun laws...

 

[NB1214]

Where are you seeing specific language as it relates to SBR's ?

 

[silverwolf]

There is nothing in SB281 specific to SBRs. However, everyone is concerned about SBRs because we know that the AG and MSP can "interpret" the regulations to mean just about whatever they want. In this case, they might determine that an SBR is illegal if it is a "rifle" with an OAL less than 29" (or possible classify it as a copycat). Can a firearm be both an SBR under the NFA and a "rifle" in the state of MD?

 

[swinokur]

The MSP said in one of the meetings an SBR is an AR 15 and therefore after Oct 1 would be banned. Guess it will hopefully be challenged.

I find it difficult to reconcile the fact that an SBR assembled or purchased before Oct 1 never required a 77r (therefore not regulated) but MSP has decided after Oct 1 it would be and is therefore banned. More made up BS like live fire for the HQL.

 

[smores]

The MSP said in one of the meetings an SBR is an AR 15 and therefore after Oct 1 would be banned. Guess it will hopefully be challenged.

I find it difficult to reconcile the fact that an SBR assembled or purchased before Oct 1 never required a 77r (therefore not regulated) but MSP has decided after Oct 1 it would be and is therefore banned. More made up BS like live fire for the HQL.

Are you kidding? I mean what if you wanted to make an SBR out of an HK94 or AK? They consider that an AR-15? I guess that image with every gun labeled as an AR-15 is totally accurate now....

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

 

[swinokur]

I should clarify. I think what was said an AR15 SBR will be banned, although MSP didn't consider it a banned weapon (no 77r) before Oct. 1

 

[jsnider22]

Would this mean you couldn't take an AR15 you already have and do a Form 1 to make it an SBR?

 

[swinokur]

Good question. I would think if you owned the lower before Oct 1 you would be legal, but with all this conflicting info who knows? If MSP refuses to sign off after Oct 1, we're screwed.

I have now waited 95 days for MSP to sign off on my Form 4. Still nada.

 

[jsnider22]

Well if MSP refuses to sign off couldn't you just use a trust?

 

[Beemerguy]

Where are you seeing specific language as it relates to SBR's ?

I don't see such language, and this isn't my argument. My dealer told me this is the result of the MSP's interpretation of the new law. I believe the reasoning is that semi-autos under a certain length are banned, and that applies even to Class 3 weapons.

 

[Beemerguy]

There is nothing in SB281 specific to SBRs. However, everyone is concerned about SBRs because we know that the AG and MSP can "interpret" the regulations to mean just about whatever they want. In this case, they might determine that an SBR is illegal if it is a "rifle" with an OAL less than 29" (or possible classify it as a copycat). Can a firearm be both an SBR under the NFA and a "rifle" in the state of MD?

That is exactly what my dealer told me: The MSP has interpreted the law to ban SBRs because of their short overall length.

 

[Devil Dog]

We have to remember that some SBRs are still 29 inches or longer in OAL. And depending on how they measure OAL (with stock extended, as ATF does?) then plenty more SBRs will be ok in Maryland.

 

[mtel]

Pretty extensive thread on the subject here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=129702

Most of the thread is commentary but there are few who provided info (like posts 431, 453 and 502) indicating SBRs will be subject to OAL (possibly the copies and copycat provisions too). It doesn't appear SBRs are banned, just severely limited (not all SBRs are shorter than 29").

Nothing in that thread is the same as an AG's opinion letter but some of the credible posters in that thread, along with talking with FFLs, made me spend yet more money.

Nothing is etched in stone with the AG or MSP yet either. It's all subject to revision, to made better (or worse) pending any eventual clarification/negotiations/litigation/etc.

Safest (and most expensive) bet is to buy what you want and submit your forms 1 or 4 before 10/1. There's no guarantee they'll be approved but I figure what does that matter?

Best to just submit and have the possibility of ending up with something over the certainty of nothing if you don't...

 

[dblas]

I went to my FFL to pick up my latest pistol on Monday, and reminded them that my next purchase, in a few months, will be a short-barreled Thompson M1 we discussed previously.

When we first talked about this, my FFL insisted that Class 3 weapons such as the Thompson M1 SBR were under the purview of the BATFE only, that the State of Maryland would have no involvement in the transfer, and in fact would not even be made aware of it.

Yesterday they told me that the way Maryland's new law is written, the MSP is interpreting it to apply to SBRs, meaning that semi-auto SBRs will be banned after October 1, and if I wanted one, I needed to have a purchase order completed by that date.

I wasn't really ready to buy right now, but I went online, found what I was looking for, and bought it.

If you've been thinking about a Class 3 rifle like this, you might want to act before October 1...

SBRs are only affected if it under an OAL of 29". So will the Thompson SBR be under 29" overall? If not, then buy it at your leisure.

 

[dblas]

Would this mean you couldn't take an AR15 you already have and do a Form 1 to make it an SBR?

After Oct 1, form 1 AR SBR will be the only way to get and AR SBR per MSP guidance at the Hyattsville meeting.

The full debate on this is in the NFA forum here on MDS.

 

[swinokur]

I don't see such language, and this isn't my argument. My dealer told me this is the result of the MSP's interpretation of the new law. I believe the reasoning is that semi-autos under a certain length are banned, and that applies even to Class 3 weapons.

The reason given was not the OAL copycat test. It was because it's an AR 15, and therefore banned after Oct. 1. Other models are subject to the copycat test AFAIK.

 

[Beemerguy]

SBRs are only affected if it under an OAL of 29". So will the Thompson SBR be under 29" overall? If not, then buy it at your leisure.

I bought one yesterday...not taking any chances.