Question for LEO's/Military/ETC

[Badfish55]

Yes. The framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights intended for us to be able to own state of the art military weapons just like they did.

Two Colt-Browning machine guns the “Roosevelt’s Rough Riders” took to Cuba in 1898 were purchased and donated by private citizens.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-rough-riders-potato-digger/

That is my opinion as an informed responsible gun owner and patriot. Being a gun owner and patriot puts me in the same category as the framers, making me imminently more qualified to interpret the Second Amendment than some politician with a firearms phobia.

Carry on.

Agreed

 

[9613]

My response is in bold:

Okay so you completely avoided my question.

DO YOU or DO YOU NOT believe that ANYONE should be able to walk into a shop and purchase a pistol, rifle, "assault rifle" with cash and walk right out? No names, no checks, nothing.

Yes, I do. As long as that person if free to do so, then he should be free to do so. How about this: Heck, if enough people start buying guns, we might be able to make our workplaces safe from all of the crazies that wish to do harm to innocent people!

So as long as the weapon does not serve the purpose of self defense then it is okay to be considered 'military only'? That's contradicting your previous statement.

It doesn't contradict. The fact that an item doesn't serve as an appropriate item for self defense doesn't mean it should be restricted to military. The fact that it infringes on the rights of others means that it should be restricted from personal use.

So now lets go down the list, which should be civilian, which should be military only? Or are you going to take your previous stance of there should be no such thing as LE/mil use only:
Pistols
M4's
M249's
.50 cals
plastic explosives (would be dirt cheap in a civilian market)
AT4's
claymore's
M67's
60mm Mortars (costs only $20 ea...)
81mm Mortars (cost only $50 ea..)
120mm Mortars (costs only $100...)
Artillery in general..
Qassam Rockets (still only $800)
Larger missiles I know nothing about
Chemical weapons specifically (cheaper than qassam rockets without getting into figures..)
any CBRN

At what point do you draw the line?

I could make a similar list and ask you the same thing. Baseball bats, knives, gasoline, airplanes, pressure cookers, rope..... Where do we draw the line on what civilians should own? I stand by my previous statement that if it's available to our government (the military) then it should be available to the citizens. The "line" should be drawn where the item serves no legitimate use as a defensive weapon (since that was one of the key reasons for the 2nd Amendment). This should be decided by the courts, not politicians. Either that, or we need to vote to amend the Constitution to "clarify" this for the individuals in America that don't understand what the 2nd Amendment guarantees to us.

Going off what you have said (and contradicted) you think some random thug who got off with murder and is pending assault with a deadly weapon charges in south Detroit should be able to walk into a shop and purchase a few 60mm mortars free and clear. Because how dare we do a background check which assumes hes criminal. And How dare the public not have the same weapons as the military.

How about we start focusing on why a murdering thug is walking the streets as a free man? I'd rather we address that issue instead of infringing on the rights of the innocent. What was it that Benjamin Franklin said about trading freedom for security?

My personal opinion: If you argue that civilians should be allowed to stockpile 60mm mortars, M67's, and claymores in detroit, nyc, san fransisco, baltimore, your a tad bit ridiculous and fail to see the big picture.

 

[Brooklyn]

I belive that there should be guidlines but to what degree i dont know. We live in modern times and you need modern solutions to solve modern problems not ideals that were set 237 years ago. I do belive the goverment is trying there just being lazy.

I believe you should need to pass an IQ test to vote.. After all that's the one thing the founders did not not trust to the rabble -- the vote. Guns however -- all good..

 

[Badfish55]

I believe you should need to pass an IQ test to vote.. After all that's the one thing the founders did not not trust to the rabble -- the vote. Guns however -- all good..

So do you believe that we should stay with the same guidelines and policies set forth by the framers 237 years ago when it comes to gun laws in modern times?

 

[Redd Byrd]

Personally, I swore an oath to the Constitution, all of it, as well as to protect it from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.

I did not swear an oath to lawyers, politicians, or bureaucrats.

Part of that oath says I am obligated to REFUSE illegal orders, this would include laws in direct opposition to an enumerated protection under the Constitution.

I no longer wear Army green, but my oath has no expiration.

An oath is an OATH without limitations!

 

[TxAggie]

A point that I have been hammering since I joined the PD in 1986.

Enforcement of the current laws and actual service of the penalties assigned thereto would have an actual effect on crime committed using all weapons.

The lawyer gets the suspect off or the charge reduced in a bargain that includes NOTHING of the public interest. The criminal justice system works very hard to insure that the criminal is the only one who gets any "justice". Criminals are treated with kid gloves and huggy kissy slaps on the wrists when they NEED a kick in the BALLS. Don't focus on eliminating guns... Eliminate the F'n criminal. Take THEM off of the street. Gun crime will disappear. OweTards, burn in hell!

Exactly. And the debate during SB281 showed that this is the area politicians don't give a crap about. When an amendment was offered for mandatory sentences for crimes commutes while armed, the same people claiming this was to "protect the children" voted it down.

This is the big factor that is often overlooked (on purpose in my opinion.) Most 2A activists believe in the rule if law and in PUNISHING those who commit crimes with firearms. Mandatory sentences, no plea bargains, it real punishment.

One statistic that the antis are using more and more is that they can't punish criminals because there's no more space in the prisons. I say, why don't you actually PUNISH them while in prison instead of treating them like they are at the Four Seasons. Sheriff Arpio has it right. No cable TV, basic meals, put then to work for the good of the community.

 

[Brooklyn]

So do you believe that we should stay with the same guidelines and policies set forth by the framers 237 years ago when it comes to gun laws in modern times?

Yes. Worse than that I think The 4th amendment should mean something as well, even on the internet, but don't worry, my fellow Americans don't give a f,,k-- you can abuse their rights at your convince, if that's your goal.

 

[Badfish55]

Yes. Worse than that I think The 4th amendment should mean something as well, even on the internet, but don't worry, my fellow Americans don't give a f,,k-- you can abuse their rights at your convince, if that's your goal.

Fair enough I'm not trying to abuse any rights especially cause I have a strong believe that abusing anything in live let it be rights or even power is unacceptable, even though in this day and age that is the case all too often, all the way to the highest powers of government. I just have a problem with people believing that if we structure our laws to the way they were 237 years ago that will fix everything, that’s what got us into this debacle originally (ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN OF 1994) trying to find the quick fix, its childish to think that and even worse ignorant. As Americans we can do better than that. As a military member and a patriot it hurts me all the way to my core to see what's happening to this Great and Wonderful Country we live in but I try my hardest everyday to change that, I just hope there's more people out there that feel like me.

 

[Brooklyn]

Fair enough I'm not trying to abuse any rights especially cause I have a strong believe that abusing anything in live let it be rights or even power is unacceptable, even though in this day and age that is the case all too often, all the way to the highest powers of government. I just have a problem with people believing that if we structure our laws to the way they were 237 years ago that will fix everything, that’s what got us into this debacle originally (ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN OF 1994) trying to find the quick fix, its childish to think that and even worse ignorant. As Americans we can do better than that. As a military member and a patriot it hurts me all the way to my core to see what's happening to this Great and Wonderful Country we live in but I try my hardest everyday to change that, I just hope there's more people out there that feel like me.

If you really understand the constitution you know 2 things.

1. It was intended to restrain government.

2. It was not intended to solve social problems.


Want to solve social problems? -- do not use the power of government to do so.

 

[Badfish55]

If you really understand the constitution you know 2 things.

1. It was intended to restrain government.

2. It was not intended to solve social problems.


Want to solve social problems? -- do not use the power of government to do so.

I agree with you hence my rant about the highest powers of government abusing their powers, but where I find my myself at a crossroad is what to do about the CF that is gun laws in the country now. If being a leader in the Military has taught me anything is you can't make everybody happy you just go to do the right thing. With that being what is the right thing as far as gun laws I really don’t know. I do know one thing though doing the right thing doesn’t always mean your promised the best outcome.

 

[Brooklyn]

I agree with you hence my rant about the highest powers of government abusing their powers, but where I find my myself at a crossroad is what to do about the CF that is gun laws in the country now. If being a leader in the Military has taught me anything is you can't make everybody happy you just go to do the right thing. With that being what is the right thing as far as gun laws I really don’t know. I do know one thing though doing the right thing doesn’t always mean your promised the best outcome.

What if we taught people about the constitution. And then taught them about guns, and self defense. And then taught them about moral responsibility .


What if we called it --- the scouting movement or project Appleseed.

As Mil leader you are well positioned to help guide the young--- perhaps you have time to help out.

I will be up to my neck in politics for awhile-- but I plan to help out with project Appleseed as soon as practical ..

 

[Badfish55]

What if we taught people about the constitution. And then taught them about guns, and self defense. And then taught them about moral responsibility .


What if we called it --- the scouting movement or project Appleseed.

As Mil leader you are well positioned to help guide the young--- perhaps you have time to help out.

I will be up to my neck in politics for awhile-- but I plan to help out with project Appleseed as soon as practical ..

Sounds good to me oddly enough I do that with every person I meet. I will tell you won't be the most popular person because you can't educate everyone some people just don’t get it but you know what they say "knowledge is power" that alone keeps me motivated, I know I've at least inspired 6 of my Junior guys to become gun owners more importantly educated gun owners.

 

[trailman]

You believe there should be no such thing as "le/mil use only", sooo let's allow people to have AT-4 rockets and M67 fragmentation grenades. Yeah, that seems legit.

For the life of me, yes I do. If I have a safe place to play with them why would anyone care. Any yes let's throw out the obvious strawman of the nuke. And I'll still answer yes. If I had my own atoll in the middle of nowhere......

You know you used to be able to buy mothballed A-4 sky hawks, now if I had a ranch in Texas I could have some fun.