Please help me pick a barrel

[aray]

Guys, I need help & advice on which barrel to get.

I have an AR-15 lower sitting in a shop waiting on release but I'm trying to plan my build out now. This will be my first (and only) AR build. It will be DI. I know before you can make a plan, you have to know your goals. So here is what I want out of my AR:

I want to share it with my 14 year old daughter, so it needs to be light for her. As for accuracy, she shoots better than my geezerly eyes will allow me anymore, but in 10-ish years when I retire I'll transition from range plinking to picking off varmints off my back 40 once I can move to a more rural area. I suppose I do consider it a home self defense weapon as well, in the unusual case of a sustained regional disaster, however I have handguns positioned all over the house as my primary means of SD for the much more common rapid home invasion scenario.

I also don't care for the aesthetics of a pistol-style AR, so too short is out. That leaves mid to long length. But here's part of my quandary: longer barrels and sight pictures would translate to better accuracy, but at more front-end weight for my daughter, and the opposite is true for shorter barrels - less weight but less accuracy. Where is the sweet spot?

What I have decided on is to go with a Young Mfg. chrome bolt carrier group: http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1007

I'm also going to go with a stainless steel barrel, either from Rainier Arms or from Noveske, ref: http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/browse&category=ar15barrels

But which? There are like 31 options between those two brands, all stainless steel.

What is the criteria I should use to decide? How should I make a decision between all of those options, given my uses listed above? How do I pick the barrel length, and the type?

Sorry for the naive questions, but I admit it: I'm new to the AR platform and I'm not ashamed to ask for help from those of you who have been down this path before.

I'd love your direct opinions, but I'm also not afraid to read up on articles if this sort of thing has already been discussed and analyzed before. But I searched and couldn't find anything quite like this, plus I thought it helpful to describe the uses for my AR and at least some of the other personal design choices I'd made thus far.

Thanks much for the help & insight!

 

[Biggfoot44]

I apreacate where you are coming from. Weight and balance have at least as much to do with profile as length.

At this time , I am reading , that your limiting factor is daughter's ability/ comfort to shoot off hand. If so have her * test hold * a couple of rifles of benchmark configuration. Like an 20in A2 profile , and a 16in M4 profile. All unadorned with bolted on doodads. That will give us an idea which direction you need to go.

Of course , I'll throw it out there. * For now * , get a 16in of either A1 or pencil profile. By the time you retire you can either rebarrell , or get an additional varmit specific complete upper. One of the AR platform's strengths is the mix n' match versatility.

 

[Bafflingbs]

I would definitely go with the White Oak 18" wylde, either mid. or spr.

 

[stu929]

White oak has a great reputation and is very affordable.

 

[aray]

I'll try to get her to handle various ARs but it will be a bit hard as I don't have access to a ton of different varieties and don't know anyone in my area that does and is also willing to let us kick the tires, so to speak. But it's a good suggestion and I'll see what I can dig up.

As for the White Oak, if I might ask a follow-up question: Why did you recommend White Oak over Rainier in particular? Two of the three major Rainier categories (Match Series and Select Series) both have barrels in the same general price range as the White Oaks (high two hundred dollar range). Only Rainier's UltraMatch series are higher in price than White Oak (and of course most of the Noveskes are higher than them all).

Thanks.

 

[aray]

And yet another question that just popped up if I might, related to the barrel length. As I've been reading up on AR-15s it seems 16" is the breaking point between a carbine and a rifle, right? And is a carbine-length AR-15 considered a short barreled rifle? That is, if I got a barrel < 16" in length with a telescoping stock would that have NFA SBR ramifications?

(Ref: "Adding a shoulder stock to an AR-15 with a barrel shorter than 16" would constitute constructing a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR) under NFA rules – subject to a $200 tax stamp." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15)

 

[johnnyb2]

The telescoping stock has nothing to do with the SBR configuration. If you get a barrel less than 16" then that is what makes a SBR. Unless, you get a 14.5 inch barrel with a permanently pinned and welded ...brake...compensator, anything to bring it up over the 16" length. In a military M4, the barrel is 14.5, so hence the popularity of them, but I like to have options on mine, so, I have a 16", threaded, stainless steel, 1:8 twist, RRA barrel, medium contour.

As for accuracy, well, a 16" such as mine, or...a White Oaks, Novetske or Raineir will out shoot what ever you can do...hate to say it that way, but either one of these out to 600 yds will do the trick. So, people, and..scuse me, wannabe's talk too much smack about accuracy and the need for a longer barrel. YOU NEED THIS or YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT....for what you stating as our needs, a 14.5 pinned or 16" will be more than accuarate for you. Now, twist rate, the military now uses 1:7 for heavier bullets, but, I choose the 1:8 and the Whylde chamber for versatility. Since most of the inexpensive ammo is 55gr or 62 gr, the 1:8 is a better trade off for shooting up to 77gr boolits :-). And the Whylde chamber allows you to shoot .223 or 5.56 more ACCURATLY that the others.

So, since I am not going to war in the jungle, the need for a Cold Hammer Forged, with Chrome lining, ( which is not as accurate as a stainless to begin with, but not by too much unless you are bench shooting ) is not needed. A stainless such as the one's you named above, a Wilson, RRA, and probably a few others escaping my mind right now, will be more than accurate for your needs. And keep one thing in mind, as your daughter gets older, she will grow a little bit at the least, and get stronger. So, do not limit yourself to TODAY...

White Oak Armament barrels have won a lot of match's so that is why I would recommend them. Not a large company, but a good company. Ask for Jane if you need info :-) She is great to speak with.

I hope some of this info was helpful to you. Do not get to caught up on the difference in barrel length between 16-18-20 as far as accuracy goes, UNLESS, you plan on shooting beyond 500-600 yards.

Good luck, and let us know what you choose....PICS PICS....:-)

 

[Bafflingbs]

The telescoping stock has nothing to do with the SBR configuration. If you get a barrel less than 16" then that is what makes a SBR. Unless, you get a 14.5 inch barrel with a permanently pinned and welded ...brake...compensator, anything to bring it up over the 16" length. In a military M4, the barrel is 14.5, so hence the popularity of them, but I like to have options on mine, so, I have a 16", threaded, stainless steel, 1:8 twist, RRA barrel, medium contour.

As for accuracy, well, a 16" such as mine, or...a White Oaks, Novetske or Raineir will out shoot what ever you can do...hate to say it that way, but either one of these out to 600 yds will do the trick. So, people, and..scuse me, wannabe's talk too much smack about accuracy and the need for a longer barrel. YOU NEED THIS or YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT....for what you stating as our needs, a 14.5 pinned or 16" will be more than accuarate for you. Now, twist rate, the military now uses 1:7 for heavier bullets, but, I choose the 1:8 and the Whylde chamber for versatility. Since most of the inexpensive ammo is 55gr or 62 gr, the 1:8 is a better trade off for shooting up to 77gr boolits :-). And the Whylde chamber allows you to shoot .223 or 5.56 more ACCURATLY that the others.

So, since I am not going to war in the jungle, the need for a Cold Hammer Forged, with Chrome lining, ( which is not as accurate as a stainless to begin with, but not by too much unless you are bench shooting ) is not needed. A stainless such as the one's you named above, a Wilson, RRA, and probably a few others escaping my mind right now, will be more than accurate for your needs. And keep one thing in mind, as your daughter gets older, she will grow a little bit at the least, and get stronger. So, do not limit yourself to TODAY...

White Oak Armament barrels have won a lot of match's so that is why I would recommend them. Not a large company, but a good company. Ask for Jane if you need info :-) She is great to speak with.

I hope some of this info was helpful to you. Do not get to caught up on the difference in barrel length between 16-18-20 as far as accuracy goes, UNLESS, you plan on shooting beyond 500-600 yards.

Good luck, and let us know what you choose....PICS PICS....:-)

I agree completely. I chose the 18" because of the added accuracy. However, unless you use a good scope. You will probably not see the difference. Rock River has a complete upper based on the ATH that I like. They guaranty a 3/4" moa with that rifle. That has an 18" SS barrel. I like to think that one day I can shoot so good.

 

[johnnyb2]

Young is a very good BCG, but, you may consider a Chromed BCG, such as a RRA. They are soooo damn easy to clean. You just take a cloth and wipe...or even a paper towel for that matter....hahha And RRA are pretty fairly priced...mine was free with the UPPER when I purchased it a few years ago, and NIB seems to be the new HOT thing now, but, do not forget about some other options too. My RRA has been without a fault a good choice.

A RRA chrome BCG is only $170...sooo...probably not much different than a Youngs...

 

[johnnyb2]

Of course you can...with practice...and a lot of boolits!! :-) Oh...an d some good glass....Just consider going with the RRA upper complete, save yourself the time and trouble.

That is what I did. I had just lost my full time job, and had my heart set on a RRA. so I bought one of their lowers, then bought one of their parts kits, a cheap stock and had the lower. Then over the next 12 long months, saved a little here and a little there, till I got back on my feet, ordered the complete upper from them. I am not sure how long a custom order would take...Gunbroker or other auction house may be an alternative to getting a new one quicker...but may not get exactly what you want that way, but, look, stranger things have happened. Keep that 1:8 with the Whylde chamber in mind also.

Give them a call, RRA...and call White Oak also....just check out what they can offer too...it does not cost anything....-)

 

[clandestine]

Im sorry that I haven't gotten to a detailed response to our correspondence.

Noveske will give you the best reliability with enhanced accuracy in a light package.

Ranier Ultra Match will replicate the Noveskes Accuracy, sometimes with a slight edge but don't do as well with high rates of fire. Once the barrel heats up it may have extraction issues depending on ammunition.

White Oak is barrels are heavier and are not something I would put on a defensive carbine. Great accuracy but you lose some reliability.



Stick with Stainless for Accuracy.


Barrel length has to be 16" to avoid being a Short Barreled Rifle. You CAN use a shorter barrel but the flash hider or silencer mount has to make the Barrel Length at least 16". To make that combo legal the muzzle device has to be pinned and welded (permanent). For instance I can take a Ranier or Noveske 13.75" barrel and add a YHM 1/2-28 .30 Cal Mount and when pinned I get 16.20". VERY short and handy gun with SUPERB accuracy.

Down side is any barrel under 16" tends to suffer from velocity issues. The shorter the barrel the more concussion you get and the less velocity. A 13.75" Barrel can reach out easily to 600 Yards with skill. A 16" Barrel will hit harder at 600, and a 20" will do even better.

I personally accept the velocity loss for a lighter package that I can put rounds where I want.


Shorter barrels are often MORE accurate than a longer counterpart because a shorter barrel is stiffer. Long Range, Long Barreled Guns don't have long barrels for accuracy, they are long to achieve necessary velocity to reach out.

Don't skimp on the Barrel, its the most important part of the gun, after that its the BCG.

 

[Pinecone]

A few thoughts:

1) Your daughter won't be 14 forever. Heck, depending on what FFL you have your lower at, she may be legal to own it by the time MSP gets to your paperwork.

2) Even at 14, she can get stronger.

3) Before she gets older or stronger, she will just have to shoot a bit less between resting. And shooting it, will accomplish #2.

Basically, don't limit yourself too much on the build over a issue that is not static.

And WRT sight radius, obviously this is only an issue with iron sights. As you get older, you definitely appreciate optics more and more.

 

[rnish]

More thoughts:

Consider a midlength gas system over a carbine. Takes the recoil down. Then you can play with the buffer spring (blue vs white), again for recoil reduction.

Running all mid gas systems. 16 and 14.5 inch barrels. Using both blue and white buffer springs with both H and H2 buffers. I play with the before mentioned combinations and have not found one that failed to cycle (YMMV). The ejection patterns vary.

The 6.8 is a mid length system, runs a blue spring and H2 buffer. I have fired 5.56's with more recoil.

Note all of the above systems run a compensator / flash hider.

 

[aray]

First, thanks to all of your great comments. One very nice thing about MDS is the willingness of those with more experience to help folks out with less experience. As I learn I hope one day to return the favor to others.

I'm big into reliability, so that is compelling.

Now that I understand SBR, and also the various length trade-offs, I do have one follow-up question. Would I be better off with a 14.5" barrel and a compensator/brake (pinned to make it 16" non-NFA), or should I just step up to the 16" right off the bat? I now see I'll get more felt recoil with the shorter barrel, but will the compensator/brake offset that? It would be nice to get the best of both worlds: a bit less weight but with no increased recoil because of the mitigation of the brake. But maybe it doesn't quite work out that way, hence my question...

And yeah, I'm clearly going to have to get some optics one day. That will be down the road, but will have to happen eventually. But I'll start with the Magpul MBUS2 sights for now.

Thanks also for the comments on shooting tips with my daughter.

 

[clandestine]

The shorter barrel just makes the gun more easy to maneuver.

A shorter Barrel does not significantly increase recoil where a shooter would notice.

A Break DOES decrease recoil significantly, but they are LOUD.

The shorter the barrel the louder your weapon is, add a break and it amplified even more.

Short guns have a "concussion" they throw off as well, and again the same with a break.

Some short or guns with breaks are easy on the shoulder but feel like someone slapping your chest because of the concussion of the blast.

a Shorter Barrel more significant difference in the handiness of a rifle when a Suppressor is attached because a longer barrel with a Can attached feels more heavy than a shorter barrel with the same can attached.


I would avoid the break and go with a 13.75"-14.5" Stainless Medium Contour Barrel with a Flash Hider that will give you the 16" length when pinned. A mount that takes a silencer means you have more future options if you buy a suppressor. Just be sure you KNOW what kind of suppressor you may want as most cans are dedicated to certain mounts unless you get something like a SIlencerco Saker.

The 13.75-14.5"barreled gun wont be uncomfortably loud, will be handy without a tax stamp, will reach out to 500 plus yards easily, will be superbly accurate, and wont recoil much with a mid weight barrel, mid length gas system.

When you add a Can/Silencer it also significantly decreases the recoil.