Firearms Ownership Verification for Banned Firearms

[Lex Armarum]

What weight does an affidavit have, I could make up all sorts of shit, swear I have it, use photos from the internet.

Then build it all later.

Mark

^^^^^^^^pretty much^^^^^^^affadavits don't mean s**t

It is clear that you guys DO NOT UNDERSTAND affidavits, but I cannot blame you as your are not attorneys and probably do not have extensive experience with affidavits. First, an affidavit is a sworn statement under oath which means that if you lie in one, you're committing perjury. Second, Pics will be taken by me at my office and I will personally verify the firearm. Jesus Christ! I'm not an amateur and you folks oughta have more faith in me considering my reputation around here; especially you Mark.

Coincidentally, the above stated is a good reason for securing an affidavit. It's an officially prepared document which means that someone was satisfied enough with your proof of facts that they're willing to stake their malpractice insurance and reputation by preparing an affidavit for you. Food for thought.

Rusty,

The statute lists out exceptions in subsection b. I listed out the entire section and bolder what I thought was relevant.

The way I read the statute is that it does not apply to any firearm an individual owned before October 1, 2013.

If I am wrong in my interpretation, please explain how. What you are saying contradicts what others have said.

I would LOVE to engage in this argument with you but won't because I'm scared to death of someone on here taking what I say and using it as legal advice then I get sued for malpractice. No thanks.

Been thinking about this a lot recently. While the burden of proof *should* lie with the State, arguments that degenerate into "he said, she said" generally play out poorly for us commoners - LEOs, opposing counsel, et al, are all officers of the court, and being part of "the system" their words carry more weight. So any "proof" would be better than just saying "nuh uh."

That said, were I opposing counsel, I would immediately attack the "proof" and attempt to have it excluded. How? Chain of custody. You can mail a signature-required certified package to yourself, and I would demonstrate how that doesn't *prove* anything. "But it's sealed and has a postmark with the date on it!" Yep, and I can CNC machine a potato and create a stamp and fake one. But, but, but ... (ob note - I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice.)

Having documents notarized and held by a lawyer might work, but there's still the question of who had access to them. Again, were I the opposition, I would attack the crap out of the chain of custody and try to have the "proof" excluded.

Registration with the MSP seems to be the only way to provide proof that is likely to survive scrutiny. However, this comes with a bunch of other unpleasant liabilities. Aside from the obvious 2A problems, you're left with a "fox guarding the henhouse" scenario where you have to trust that the MSP won't "lose" your registration. I've had a City government lose an entire building permit, to the point they claimed one had never been issued. I have no faith that the MSP, or any government agency, will operate error free.

I don't have a good solution. I wish there was one. This crap keeps me up at night.

I'm not trying to be mean when I say what I'm about to say but invariably what I am about to say will come across as mean:

You're not a lawyer. You're not a litigation attorney. You don't know what you're talking about. Please stop with the nonsense. If I am wrong, I'm not sorry because you need to stop practicing law if that's your analysis or retake evidence... I'm not sure which.

 

[Lex Armarum]

I WILL NOT be documenting any of my firearms. If we voluntarily do this, (just to avoid any potential hassle) we are just setting ourselves up to document ALL our firearms in the near future which as well may equate to VOLUNTARY REGISTRATION.

Of course, you realize that keeping records of your firearms does not equate with voluntary registration but is actually good practice for insurance reasons. Moreover, if you choose to secure an affidavit, said document isn't filed with anyone. You simply keep it with you in a safe place and I keep a copy at my office.

 

[El_flasko]

I already have pics of all my firearms along with scanned copies of all my paperwork but it would be real nice to have an affidavit from a lawyer that would be admissible in court.
I really like the Idea.[/QUOTE

I'm with you on all points.

Keep me posted Rusty!

 

[Lex Armarum]

As an attorney, Rusty is an officer of the court. Judges tend to place more weight on sworn statements made by officers of the court.

Thank you except that I am not making a statement. The attesting party is making a statement under oath. However, the fact that a person went to the expense and effort to have an attorney prepare an affidavit speaks a great deal about a person's sincerity and honesty as I see it.

 

[Lex Armarum]

I know it's been said a couple times before regarding the mailing of pictures through certified mail and that was an idea I came up with a few months ago as soon as they passed SB281.

Here are some other ideas I've came up with to take it a step further for even more proof.

1. Mailing yourself pictures of your firearms through certified mail.

2. Take a video of yourself sealing the envelope and then sign and date it across the fold. The video should include yourself signing and dating the envelope as well. Buy a cheap SD card and copy the video to it. Then mail that SD card to yourself through certified mail as well.

3. Take pictures with a cell phone and make sure Geo location is enabled. This will give your photo a time stamp along with the GPS coordinates where it was taken.

4. Send the photos and videos to multiple cloud storage services such as Google Drive, Photobucket and Photoshop Online. Your photos and videos will forever be time stamped and synced with servers in the cloud.

It's been said too many times in a thread in which I offered a service to MDS members at a steeply discounted rate. While you're at it, spin around three times, tap your ruby slippers together, and utter the words, "There's nothing like the smell of cordite in the morning... smells like victory" until you fade from existence in Maryland and reappear in free'er climes.

Good lord people. I'm trying to help you, not rob you. How much is your time worth? Is all of the above really necessary when I can provide you with something just as good, and probably better, for a small fee?

 

[Lex Armarum]

I already have pics of all my firearms along with scanned copies of all my paperwork but it would be real nice to have an affidavit from a lawyer that would be admissible in court.
I really like the Idea.[/QUOTE

I'm with you on all points.

Keep me posted Rusty!

Will do!

 

[bpSchoch]

I believe that an affidavit done later (if ever required) would be just as powerful as one done now. As Rusty stated, an affidavit is a 2 edged sword, either what you are saying is true or you are going to jail (perjury).

You can also have your friends witness your possession now and write a note to themselves and you can later bring them into court to 'swear' the witnessing (later if needed). Rusty can correct me, but I believe that having say 3 witnesses who specifically remember you having possession of the weapon will be much stronger than a single affidavit. This witness process can be easily just having a friend come over, take a picture of the friend holding the weapon with a sign with that date (for recollection) and then email the photo to that friend for safe keeping. In court it's not the photo that counts, it's the witnesses assertion or affidavit about the photo or event that's important, so that computer dates aren't important. If you ever need to prove it, you go back to that friend/witness (who can then help with his recollection using the picture he/you saved) and either write an affidavit then or come into court and testify.

(I'm not an attorney, but have studied the law a lot)

 

[ObsceneJesster]

It's been said too many times in a thread in which I offered a service to MDS members at a steeply discounted rate. While you're at it, spin around three times, tap your ruby slippers together, and utter the words, "There's nothing like the smell of cordite in the morning... smells like victory" until you fade from existence in Maryland and reappear in free'er climes.

Good lord people. I'm trying to help you, not rob you. How much is your time worth? Is all of the above really necessary when I can provide you with something just as good, and probably better, for a small fee?

I think you took my post all wrong. I will be doing all of these things along with having an attorney draw me up an affidavit and document my firearms. I'm actually having another attorney from these boards do it.

At the end of the day, doing what I recommended will take no time at all. It's easily worth the 30 minutes it will take.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

 

[6-Pack]

Guys, you should listen to Rusty. I do mostly estate planning and business law (a "paper pusher" if you will), but these affidavits have great legal significance.

Basically, an affidavit is you testifying to something under oath (just like you would in a courtroom), except it is dated. In other words, you are testifying as to your ownership on a date before 10/1. If your ownership was ever called into question, the affidavit would hold water in court (because it has been prepared and sworn under oath) - it is much more involved than just writing serial numbers on a napkin. The best part is that the affidavit is your personal record: no one else knows it exists except for you (so there is no fear of registration). You can keep the affidavit under your pillow, put it in a safe deposit box, bury it in the yard...wherever you see fit.

 

[Elliotte]

Or just do one pic per firearm

This method has the added benefit of not giving the MSP more info than the firearm(s) in question. If you do one pic with everything, then when you use it in your defense they have info on everything else. If you do them one-by-one, you only have to turn over the info for the specific firearm(s) the state is contesting.

 

[Benanov]

This method has the added benefit of not giving the MSP more info than the firearm(s) in question. If you do one pic with everything, then when you use it in your defense they have info on everything else. If you do them one-by-one, you only have to turn over the info for the specific firearm(s) the state is contesting.

Exactly. I like this.

Think I'll be calling rusty in a few hours.

 

[Jaybeez]

The entire text of §4–303.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault weapon into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault weapon.
(b) (1) A person who lawfully possessed an assault pistol before June 1, 1994, and who registered the assault pistol with the Secretary of State Police before August 1, 1994, may:
(i) continue to possess and transport the assault pistol; or
(ii) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the assault pistol, transport the assault pistol directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault pistol in accordance with a court order and the assault pistol is unloaded.
(2) A licensed firearms dealer may continue to possess, sell, offer for sale, or transfer an assault long gun or a copycat weapon that the licensed firearms dealer lawfully possessed on or before October 1, 2013.
(3) A person who lawfully possessed, has a purchase order for, or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013, may:
(i) possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon; or
(ii) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the assault long gun or copycat weapon, transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault long gun or copycat weapon in accordance with a court order and the assault long gun or copycat weapon is unloaded.
(4) A person may transport an assault weapon to or from:
(i) an ISO 17025 accredited, National Institute of Justice–approved ballistics testing laboratory; or
(ii) a facility or entity that manufactures or provides research and development testing, analysis, or engineering for personal protective equipment or vehicle protection systems.



So what am I missing?

the line that says "assault long gun" is "defined" as "any of these OR their Copies"

 

[UNcommon Arms]

Firearms Ownership Verification for Banned Firearms
What with the ban and all going into effect on the 1st of October and the requirement that any banned firearm must be in the state at that time or be forever banished from the State, I believe that I can assist those Maryland firearms owners who have soon-to-be-banned firearms that were not purchased under Maryland's regulatory scheme (i.e., Maryland has no record of your ownership).

I am offering any concerned owner the opportunity to have me prepare an affidavit (an official, sworn statement recognized in Courts of law) attesting to said owner's possession of said soon-to-be-banned firearm in the State of Maryland prior to October 1st. The affidavit will contain a technical description of the firearm and a picture of owner holding said firearm. I am willing to offer this service for really really cheap but I haven't decided on a price.

Is anyone interested in this service and how much do you think is a fair price for the preparation and notarization of said affidavit?

Some dealer should offer AR of the month program. Buy 20 lowers or 20 complete AR's now - only pay 10% deposit on each documenting your purchase/order before 9/30/13. Then every 30 days or as you are able, you pay and receive a new AR in full compliance with MD laws as it was purchased BEFORE 10/1/13. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder?

 

[Markp]

Rusty, LOL, especially me... Dude, I am not a lawyer. I thought it was a legitimate question, as I know many people who don't give a shit about perjuring themselves. I am not questioning your character or ethics... but rather the ethics of joe random person who thinks they are clever.

So stop scolding me.

Mark

PS - Thanks for the answer.

 

[Lex Armarum]

Rusty, LOL, especially me... Dude, I am not a lawyer. I thought it was a legitimate question, as I know many people who don't give a shit about perjuring themselves. I am not questioning your character or ethics... but rather the ethics of joe random person who thinks they are clever.

So stop scolding me.

Mark

PS - Thanks for the answer.

Mark... my apologies if I came across as a scold. This thread pushed me to the ragged edge. I misinterpreted your post and yes, your question was quite legitimate.

 

[amoebicmagician]

Wouldn't the burden of proof be on the state? I'm confused...

yes, the burden of proof is on the state- and that is exactly why registration is such ********.

If you buy a rifle out of state, or sell a handgun out of state, Maryland is not involved one whit with that.

People have this idea, and the state perpetuates it, that the MD government somehow has records of who owns what, and that if they don't you're doing something wrong.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

The whole point of the second amendment is that if the govt wanted to start infringing, THEY WOULD NOT KNOW WHERE TO GO TO DO IT

Living in MD, we get battered gun owner syndrome.

Remember, anything that you owned before moving to MD you are (or were) not obligated to register- there are literally limitless reasons for you to own things that the govt has NO IDEA YOU HAVE.

And that is how it should remain. I think that getting affidavits like this is basically the same as agreeing that they have every right to be up your ass

Cause you know, it's for the children

 

[Major03]

I really don't think getting an affidavit is capitulating to the state. It's just a document between you, your attorney (or whoever witnessed it) and that's it. The state would never see a copy unless you needed to defend yourself with it.

It is a way to address some healthy paranoia on our end to make sure that the state has fewer and fewer ways to mess with you down the road.