Question about PA gun permits

I was doing some looking at the PA gun permits and possibly getting a PA drivers license (I might be taking a 3 month contract job in West Chester) and I noticed on the application for a drivers license it says "current weapons permit" as proof of residency.

So can you get a resident PA permit w/o a PA drivers license if you have a PA address?

Anyone know any cheap month to month rentals near West Chester if I take that contract job? My position with USM is messed up due to the hiring freeze.

A buddy of mine is a TROOPER. And he lives in P.a. and had to have his Drivers license and proof of residency including copies of his automobile registration.

The application process and applications varies County to county, but issuance and many of the laws pertaining to carry fall under state pre-emption laws, and localities cannot make up their own laws (for instance where not to carry).

York county requires either a DL, or a state issued ID card, but not all counties do, and being you can use a Penndot location in most any county to get a DL (forms are standard statewide), some localities have fewer requirements for a LTCF .

http://ycwebserver.york-county.org/sheriff/concealed.html

gprimr1 said:

I was doing some looking at the PA gun permits and possibly getting a PA drivers license (I might be taking a 3 month contract job in West Chester) and I noticed on the application for a drivers license it says "current weapons permit" as proof of residency.

So can you get a resident PA permit w/o a PA drivers license if you have a PA address?

Anyone know any cheap month to month rentals near West Chester if I take that contract job? My position with USM is messed up due to the hiring freeze.

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Sounds like your goal is to get a PA driver's license, or is it to get your PA LTCF?

If it is for the LTCF you do not have to be a PA resident. You do have to have a CCW permit from another state, such as (but not limited to) FL. The PA Attorney General's office has clarified that to get a non-resident PA permit does not require a CCW permit in the state you reside in, but any state which PA reciprocates with will be good.

If your goal is to get your PA residency and driver's license then usually they require proof of where you live and sometimes copies of your utility bills with your name on the account for the residence within PA.

gamer_jim said:

Sounds like your goal is to get a PA driver's license, or is it to get your PA LTCF?

If it is for the LTCF you do not have to be a PA resident. You do have to have a CCW permit from another state, such as (but not limited to) FL. The PA Attorney General's office has clarified that to get a non-resident PA permit does not require a CCW permit in the state you reside in, but any state which PA reciprocates with will be good.

If your goal is to get your PA residency and driver's license then usually they require proof of where you live and sometimes copies of your utility bills with your name on the account for the residence within PA.

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The change was in recognising the validity of non-res permits from third party states for those carrying in PA, (reciprocity is covered under state pre-emption). As far as the application process, that still varies county to county, and most still say they do not accept 3rd party CC permits for non-res applications. I talked at length with a deputy about it(worked in the LTCF division). He did say when in doubt the ladies that do the paperwork and background checks will issue a permit as long as the background check is clean. The statutes are also worded somewhat openly, and have not been challenged by a court case to sharpen the definition

from York county sherrif's website:

Out of state applicants must have a license to carry AND a Driver's License or State ID from the state in which they reside

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The deputy said that the "official interpretaion" was that if you were for example a MD resident, you would need a MD CC permit, and a MD DL, but some of the office ladies read it as you need a MD DL, and a CC permit, and take it as basically any permit will do. Thing is that they are not going to go over every single line, and actually want to issue permits (more loot for them), and like most things it takes more work to deny a permit than it takes to issue one, and revoke it later on if there is a reason to.

Get a non-res FL permit. Accepted in PA and 28 other states

I am getting a FL non-res permit, but I thought if I'm going to have to move up their for the contract job, I might as well get a resident permit so I can carry in West Virginia.

Excellent point!

I will hear more from IKON tomorrow hopefully about the job.

I understand now what I need to get the license and the permit.

alucard0822 said:

The deputy said that the "official interpretaion" was that if you were for example a MD resident, you would need a MD CC permit, and a MD DL, but some of the office ladies read it as you need a MD DL, and a CC permit, and take it as basically any permit will do. Thing is that they are not going to go over every single line, and actually want to issue permits (more loot for them), and like most things it takes more work to deny a permit than it takes to issue one, and revoke it later on if there is a reason to.

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From the PA Attorney General's website:

It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit. It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

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(bold added by me)


http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

But your right that it is up to the local sheriff to issue and from what I understand their authority is pretty much final.

gamer_jim said:

From the PA Attorney General's website:

(bold added by me)


http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

But your right that it is up to the local sheriff to issue and from what I understand their authority is pretty much final.

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That quote covers 3rd party state CCW licenses from reciprocal states. PA used to not honor non-res permits from most states, VA non-res permits being an exception, the AG changed the interpretation to allow ANY holder of a permit from a reciprocal state to carry in PA reguardless if it was a res or non-res permit, and as a result all locaities abide by it. In the case of ISSUING a PA non-res permit, it is up to the sheriff weither or not to issue a permit to a non-res who does not have a permit from their own state, or at least thats what the deputy in the York county LTCF told me

By all means though apply with a FL permit, the chances are decent you can get one, the app is fairly cheap ($25 for 5yrs), and PA is close for a lot of MDers, worst thing they can say is no.

I frequent PA a lot and would like to get a PA license should something come up. As I understand it, if I have my non-res FL permit I should technically be ok too. But I've read enough stories from a PA shooters forum about police not knowing carrying laws for their own residents, nevertheless non-residents. I figured a PA one make things easier should something come up.

gamer_jim said:

I frequent PA a lot and would like to get a PA license should something come up. As I understand it, if I have my non-res FL permit I should technically be ok too. But I've read enough stories from a PA shooters forum about police not knowing carrying laws for their own residents, nevertheless non-residents. I figured a PA one make things easier should something come up.

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Before I moved here, and got a resident PA LTCF, I carried on the FL permit, and still do in Delaware, I just kept a printed page of the AG message you linked to, and a copy of the reciprocity page folded up in a zip-lock bag. I have never had to show my permit to a LEO, but the YOCO deputy I spoke to said if there is a web link on the page, any officer could pull it up, verify it, and then send you on your way. There is also an officer that lives down the street from me, and I let him throw radar from my driveway occasionally, and sometimes talk to officer Mike over a cup of coffee, he says he catches people carrying without a PA LTCF all the time, he does not know off the top of his head what states are reciprocal so if they have an out of state permit, and seem decent, he lets them go without a second thought, on occassion he catches someone carrying without a permit at all, and basically orders them to carry it open, or unload it, and store it in a compartment in the vehicle as long as they seem OK, and tells them to call the sheriffs office to see about getting a permit. I have no way to know if this is the normal response, but Mike is pro-gun, and shoots at the same club that I do (he invited me to join in the first place).

As far as getting a non-res permit using a FL CHL, I am not trying to discourage you or anyone else from applying for one, merely relaying what I was told by one of the officers who should be in the know, but as I stated earlier, he also told me they tend to issue them anyway, even if it does not meet all the criteria to the letter. In the same way, I only had one of two acceptible "proof of residency" papers when I got my drivers license, but being 5 minutes before they closed, and having most everything else in order, the guy at PENNDOT let it slide, and issued the license. In my experiences up here, most of the people that issue some form of license, sign off on class III paperwork, LTCF, or tags seem to be a whole lot more laid back than in MD. Where in MD, if any little thing is not 100% perfect, it seems like they enjoy sending you away with a big red "denied" stamp, PA folk seem to not care as much.

I think I am going to apply, on the application is says

OTHER THAN PENNSYLVANIA, DO YOU POSSESS A CURRENT LICENSE, PERMIT, OR SIMILAR DOCUMENT TO CARRY A FIREARM ISSUED FROM ANOTHER STATE? IF YES, ATTACH A PHOTOCOPY OF THE DOCUMENT TO THIS FORM

Well it seems worth a shot to me

I think I read somewhere that PA will only issue a non-resident concealed carry permit to you if you have a valid resident permit for your state.

sbarber7973 said:

I think I am going to apply, on the application is says

OTHER THAN PENNSYLVANIA, DO YOU POSSESS A CURRENT LICENSE, PERMIT, OR SIMILAR DOCUMENT TO CARRY A FIREARM ISSUED FROM ANOTHER STATE? IF YES, ATTACH A PHOTOCOPY OF THE DOCUMENT TO THIS FORM

Well it seems worth a shot to me

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I included a copy of my FL permit, they didn't call either of my "references", and I got an e-mail 3 days later saying it was ready to be picked up, of course this was for a "resident" permit. Make sure you fill out the "how should we contact you" page in addition to the permit app, or else they will not tell you when or if it has been approved or not.
http://ycwebserver.york-county.org/sheriff/pdfs/Applicant_Contact_Request.pdf

3rdRcn said:

I think I read somewhere that PA will only issue a non-resident concealed carry permit to you if you have a valid resident permit for your state.

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Yea I have heard the same, but I know someone who has recieved one by using their FL CCW card, and that was approved in Washington County

alucard0822 said:

I included a copy of my FL permit, they didn't call either of my "references", and I got an e-mail 3 days later saying it was ready to be picked up, of course this was for a "resident" permit. Make sure you fill out the "how should we contact you" page in addition to the permit app, or else they will not tell you when or if it has been approved or not.
http://ycwebserver.york-county.org/sheriff/pdfs/Applicant_Contact_Request.pdf

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Thanks for the heads up alucard I will do that. Also one other thing do we have to send photos in with it?

sbarber7973 said:

Yea I have heard the same, but I know someone who has recieved one by using their FL CCW card, and that was approved in Washington County



Thanks for the heads up alucard I will do that. Also one other thing do we have to send photos in with it?

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depending on the county, in York and most others, they take the photo there when you pick up the LTCF, some counties want you to send one with the app, the sheriff's web site should have all the details.

OTHER THAN PENNSYLVANIA, DO YOU POSSESS A CURRENT LICENSE, PERMIT, OR SIMILAR DOCUMENT TO CARRY A FIREARM ISSUED FROM ANOTHER STATE? IF YES, ATTACH A PHOTOCOPY OF THE DOCUMENT TO THIS FORM

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While this is the question on the actual application, in the instructions (both on the main page - http://ycwebserver.york-county.org/sheriff/concealed.html - and on the instructions from the main page link) it says you must have a license to carry from the state in which you reside

To obtain a non-resident permit you must own property in York County, conduct business in York County, or have family in York County. You will also be required to have a license to carry from the state in which you reside and a valid state ID or Driver’s License from the state in which you reside. You must verify that you meet the non-resident criteria in writing with your application to obtain a permit.

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On the main page it also says they will contact references and employer

We will be contacting references and employer as part of the background process. Applications will be denied if contact information is incomplete or inaccurate.

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Like sbarber7973, I think it would be good to have a non-resident PA permit along with my non-resident FLA permit as I go to PA often.

It seems worth the $5 admin fee they charge if the permit is denied. Hopefully they are more interested in seeing a copy of your driver's license and a copy of a valid license to carry (from any state), than in calling references and seeing if you have property, family or business in York County. I myself would rather they not contact my employer as I don't think they need to know this kind of info.

eruby said:

While this is the question on the actual application, in the instructions (both on the main page - http://ycwebserver.york-county.org/sheriff/concealed.html - and on the instructions from the main page link) it says you must have a license to carry from the state in which you reside On the main page it also says they will contact references and employer Like sbarber7973, I think it would be good to have a non-resident PA permit along with my non-resident FLA permit as I go to PA often.

It seems worth the $5 admin fee they charge if the permit is denied. Hopefully they are more interested in seeing a copy of your driver's license and a copy of a valid license to carry (from any state), than in calling references and seeing if you have property, family or business in York County. I myself would rather they not contact my employer as I don't think they need to know this kind of info.

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every county is different in reguards to the process, and especially with non-res permits

for example from washington county:

Procedure to Apply for a License to Carry a Firearm

Applicatants must apply in person at the Sheriff’s Office. Office hours are 9:00 AM until 3:30 PM to apply for a license to carry permit. The Washington County Sheriff’s office does not issue license to carry permits for out of state residents.

The following items are required in order to apply for a permit to carry:



Current PA Drivers License or PA Photo ID Card, Address shown must be in Washington County.


The Fee is $ 25.00 for a five year license. The fee may be made payable in cash or check. No debit or credit cards are accepted.


The names, addresses and telephone number of two persons to write on the application as references. The people must not be related to you.


NOTE: Disclosure of your social security number is voluntary and will be used to facilitate a background check. If you choose not to disclose your social security number, the sheriff must still accept the application and forward it to the State Police for the required background check. It may take significantly longer to process the background check without your social security number. (PLEASE BE ADVISED, THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER NO LONGER APPEARS ON THE LICENSE)

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Center county is fairly easy to get a non res from, as they are about the only county that will do everything through the mail, and don't require a trip to get the permit, they also strictly enforce the "must have a home state permit"

Completed and Signed Application must be accompanied by the following:

A photo copy of a license to carry a firearm (concealed carry permit) from your home state if that state has a concealed carry law.
A photo copy of your Driver's License.
A self addressed stamped envelope.
$26.00 fee for five year license and out of state processing. (Check/money order made out to Centre County Sheriff.)
Mail to:

Centre County Sheriff's Office
213 East High Street
Bellefonte, PA 16823

Special Note: Missouri is now considered an issuing State, therefore it is mandatory that Missouri residents obtain a license to carry from Missouri and include a photo copy with the application.

License to Carry Firearm Application [PDF]

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this breaks it down county by county:
http://paccw.home.mindspring.com/

Even though technically you are required to have a permit from your home state, I know a couple MDers who have a PA LTCF, and they only submitted their FL permit. Like I have posted before, York county is swamped, and lots of times will issue a permit even if all the info is not perfect, and according to about a dozen people who have a PA LTCF, none have had any of their references called. However there is no guarantee it won't be revoked or not renewed if later on we get stuck with a seriously anti-gun Sheriff, but I will do what I can to keep that from happening