GAO report on Permits

Rainmaker · Jul 18, 2012

Hey guys if you havent seen this youre missing out. 70 year old man thwarts Internet Cafe Robbery http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/crime/2012/07/17/dnt-internet-cafe-robbery-foiled.wkmg

Also check out the latest GAO gun control report submitted to Congress youll be surprised. Someone might want to bring it to the attention of Gura and company.

States' Laws and Requirements for Concealed Carry Permits Vary across the Nation
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-717

tomgreco · Jul 18, 2012

Rainmaker said:
Hey guys if you havent seen this youre missing out. 70 year old man thwarts Internet Cafe Robbery http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/crime/2012/07/17/dnt-internet-cafe-robbery-foiled.wkmg

Also check out the latest GAO gun control report submitted to Congress youll be surprised. Someone might want to bring it to the attention of Gura and company.

States' Laws and Requirements for Concealed Carry Permits Vary across the Nation
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-717

Good GAO info!

tiersmoke92555 · Jul 18, 2012

Living in the "hood" I see tons of times when if someone other than a "thug" was armed thing would turn out different.

Rainmaker · Jul 18, 2012

tomgreco said:
Good GAO info!

Approximate Number of Active Concealed Carry Permit Holders as
of October 1, 2011: 12,000 (rounded to the nearest thousand)

State Adult Population (age 20 or over) per U.S. 2010 Census:
4,256,926

Now look at page 56 foot note number 69

gruube · Jul 18, 2012

That guy has balls. Hand salute.

Rainmaker · Jul 18, 2012

gruube said:
That guy has balls. Hand salute.

oops also forgot to mention they highlight MD pretty good on page 18. Sorry

Bob A · Jul 18, 2012

MD: population ~4,200,000; permits ~12,000
MASS: Pop ~4,900,000; permits ~251,000
NJ: Pop ~6,500,000; permits ~32,000

Only California makes us look good, with nearly 29,000,000 people and 35,000 permits. And Hawaii, of course, with zero permits. Just another day in Paradise, even more hypocritical than Illinois.

Minuteman · Jul 19, 2012

Wow, first glance, that looks like legitimate research and once again the truth takes the day. Now if only the antis would read it, let it soak in a bit. Maybe read some John Lott while they are at it.

Baumer · Jul 19, 2012

In the GAO report I found it interesting that in 2011 MD revoked 270 permits while issuing 1700. That's about 16%. It looks like no other state including the shall issue states was over 2.5%. It begs the question, with G&S, references, interviews, etc.. that MD forces citizens to go through, how do they get it wrong so often that the rate is this high?

Inigoes · Jul 19, 2012

Baumer said:
In the GAO report I found it interesting that in 2011 MD revoked 270 permits while issuing 1700. That's about 16%. It looks like no other state including the shall issue states was over 2.5%. It begs the question, with G&S, references, interviews, etc.. that MD forces citizens to go through, how do they get it wrong so often that the rate is this high?

It would scary, if LEOs were the main percentage of permit holders.

Most likely, due to high turnover in the security profession.

dlmcbm · Jul 19, 2012

Baumer said:
In the GAO report I found it interesting that in 2011 MD revoked 270 permits while issuing 1700. That's about 16%. It looks like no other state including the shall issue states was over 2.5%. It begs the question, with G&S, references, interviews, etc.. that MD forces citizens to go through, how do they get it wrong so often that the rate is this high?

What you have to remember here is that most of these permits are job related NOT self defense. So any one who quits, gets fired or for what ever reason looses there job with the employer that requires it then MSP will revoke there permit. It's not that they did something wrong to get it revoked.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 19, 2012

The *revokation* rate in Md is so high because MSP is extremely narrow is transfering occupational Permits from one employer to another.

My red flag is that NJ's stats are way too high. I suspect that with LEOSA in effect that a lot of the permits for retired/ off duty LE won't be renewed as such after they expire , and their totals will precitiously drop.

RoadDawg · Jul 20, 2012

Inigoes said:
It would (be) scary, if LEOs were the main percentage of permit holders.

Most likely, due to high turnover in the security profession.

Scary? Really? How so?

I can see how it would be lopsided and unfair... But SCARY? :sad20:

press1280 · Jul 21, 2012

Bob A said:
MD: population ~4,200,000; permits ~12,000
MASS: Pop ~4,900,000; permits ~251,000
NJ: Pop ~6,500,000; permits ~32,000

Only California makes us look good, with nearly 29,000,000 people and 35,000 permits. And Hawaii, of course, with zero permits. Just another day in Paradise, even more hypocritical than Illinois.

I question those NJ numbers. I contacted them a few years ago and I was told there were 4-5,000 civilian carry permits, and another 5,000 or so retired LEO permits. They probably included their FOID in those numbers, because NJ is worse than MD as far as issuing permits.
I'm not seeing much that either side can use in this debate. The differences in issuance policies are highlighted, but with no crime stats you can't draw any conclusions.

Bob A · Jul 21, 2012

Go ahead a question the numbers, but one can hope that the GAO is reasonably competent.

That said, there doesn't need to be a link to crime statistics for this info to be useful. The very large disparity between even such leftist states as MA. coupled with the total lack of blood running in the street, pretty much leaves MD without any place to hide. There's no rational argument they can win in the face of information that completely invalidates their arguments.

They're reduced to "Because we say you can't have guns, that's why". Works for Big Mommy, but once we're all grownups, it hits the wall.

smores · Jul 21, 2012

dlmcbm said:
What you have to remember here is that most of these permits are job related NOT self defense. So any one who quits, gets fired or for what ever reason looses there job with the employer that requires it then MSP will revoke there permit. It's not that they did something wrong to get it revoked.

Truth.

press1280 · Jul 21, 2012

Bob A said:
Go ahead a question the numbers, but one can hope that the GAO is reasonably competent.

That said, there doesn't need to be a link to crime statistics for this info to be useful. The very large disparity between even such leftist states as MA. coupled with the total lack of blood running in the street, pretty much leaves MD without any place to hide. There's no rational argument they can win in the face of information that completely invalidates their arguments.

They're reduced to "Because we say you can't have guns, that's why". Works for Big Mommy, but once we're all grownups, it hits the wall.

I'm more questioning the states' information as opposed to the GOA, who was pretty thorough. It wouldn't suprise me that some may-issue states will artificially inflate their numbers just so it appears they aren't way out there, and are "reasonable" when it comes to issuance.

mranaya · Jul 21, 2012

Brave, bad dude. The mayor needs to cite him with a civilian medal. I hope someone at least bought him a lunch.

montyw2 · Jul 24, 2012

I noticed the old guy didn't have a "proper" grip per se but his actions were certainly effective and got the job done.

pilotguy299 · Jul 28, 2012

Bob A said:
Go ahead a question the numbers, but one can hope that the GAO is reasonably competent.

They aren't.

GAO has done several reports on subjects I am familiar with through work, and they were wrong in two of them. What bothered me was that they provided incorrect information on items that could be easily refuted if even a little real research was done.

The first had to do with the storage location of reports, and the second had to do with where agencies specific legal authority on an issue comes from.

GAO report on Permits

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