Second Amendment Case: Law Student Sues Idaho University to Keep Guns

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  • Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    "But one student here is fighting for his right to keep a bit of the Wild West alive on campus."

    Holy shit. It has nothing to do with the so-called "Wild West." We're not going to get far if we keep using our enemy's language.
     

    Unspoken

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 11, 2010
    689
    Ambassador of GA
    "But one student here is fighting for his right to keep a bit of the Wild West alive on campus."

    Holy shit. It has nothing to do with the so-called "Wild West." We're not going to get far if we keep using our enemy's language.

    I couldnt take the article very seriously after reading that line.
     

    Al Norris

    Spud Head
    Dec 1, 2010
    746
    Rupert, Idaho
    There's just a bit of legal lead-up to this whole lawsuit.

    Idaho has always been a preemptive State. However, the statutes that had been passed, only dealt with cities (18-872) and counties (50-343). Those two sections were repealed and new code was inserted by SB 1441, passed in 2008. This new code was 18-3302J (all firearms law is now coded in Chapter 33 of Title 18). However, during the session, the Idaho Board of Regents raised a huge stink and the following exception was carved out:

    18-3302J(5)(c): The authority of the board of regents of the university of Idaho, the boards of trustees of the state colleges and universities, the board of professional-technical education and the boards of trustees of each of the community colleges established under chapter 21, title 33, Idaho Code, to regulate in matters relating to firearms.​

    It should not come as any surprise that the Idaho Universities and Colleges have continued their bans on guns at or on campus. However, this flies in the face of the Idaho Supreme Court case, In re Brickey, 8 Idaho 597 (1902), which says in relevant part:

    While it is, undoubtedly, within the power of the legislature to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, and such regulation is a proper exercise of police power, yet the legislature does not possess the power to prohibit the carrying of firearms, as the right to do so is guaranteed to the citizen both by our federal and state constitutions.​

    The syllabus above (written by the Court), is express in the actual holding, below:

    A statute prohibiting the carrying of concealed deadly weapons would be a proper exercise of the police power of the state. But the statute in question does not prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed, which is of itself a pernicious practice, but prohibits the carrying of them in any manner in cities, towns, and villages. We are compelled to hold this statute void.​

    Aaron's initial complaint was filed on 01-18-2011, in the Idaho 2nd District Court (Latah County). His 1st amended complaint was filed on 01-28-2011 and is much better (I have attached that complaint). Aaron is suing for nothing more than the ability to keep a functional firearm in his home, which happens to be UI married housing, which is located completely apart from the campus, but it still UI property (straight out of the Heller opinion.

    The response from UI is due on 02-11-2011.
     

    Attachments

    • Complaint - First Amended.pdf
      139.9 KB · Views: 252

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Thanks Al...

    Another Pro Se case...we'll keep our fingers crossed. Since this is in your neck of the woods, is he receiving any outside assistance that you're aware of?

    This should be a "no brainer" given Heller's clear protection of "in the home". Numerous similar cases in public housing have failed. We shall see...
     

    hailtoby

    Running with the Devil.
    Sep 5, 2009
    920
    Charles County
    There's also liability for the individual posting as well, at least if I recall correctly. Ain't it fun? :)

    Not to take this thread off track, but how is an anonymous poster on a web forum going to be held liable?

    And for the OP, at least this guy is making use of his law degree. If he is victorious, he had better get an A.
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    Not to take this thread off track, but how is an anonymous poster on a web forum going to be held liable?

    And for the OP, at least this guy is making use of his law degree. If he is victorious, he had better get an A.

    I'll bet the lawyers will start swinging their weight..."we'll reduce the charge to only one reaming of yer butt if you tell us who is that anonymous poster." More people to hold liable, the more people get fined, the more the lawyers can make. Simple economics.
     

    Al Norris

    Spud Head
    Dec 1, 2010
    746
    Rupert, Idaho
    SAF has apparently been in contact with the plaintiff in this case. The Pltf, Aaron Tribble, is a law student at UofI.

    When I saw Al Norris throwing out info, I should have gone here before replying: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438263

    :innocent0

    Sorry Mark. I saw the topic and had a mere five minutes to post before I had to get to work.... I just plain forgot to add the TFL and/or the Calguns thread to the mix. Calguns thread is here. Here's the case info:

    Case: CV-2011-0000069
    Idaho 2nd District Court (Latah County)
    Filed: 01/18/2011
    Judge:John R. Stegner
    Plaintiffs: Tribble, Aaron
    Defendants:Nellis, Duane; State Board Of Education & Board Of Regents
    Summons issued: 01/21/2011
    Initial Hearing: 07/20/2011

    The docket (whenever the clerk gets around to updating) can be found by going here and typing "tribble" into the Last Name field.

    If aaron hadn't sent me the complaint and the amended complaint, I would have had to write to the court clerk in Latah county, find out their fee and send them a check. Only after the check cleared, would the court have sent me a hard copy of the complaint. In many respects, Idaho is so out of date....

    AAR....

    Aaron is a 2l law student. When I was first able to contact him, I outlined what I thought he should cover and where the defendant will go by way of giving him the complete history of Idaho law, as regards the possession of firearms.

    Where he and I disagree, is the "sensitive places" defense that the Regents will use. I highly suspect this will be in their reply/MTD.

    The Heller dicta of "schools" being a sensitive place" must assume that the Supreme Court was aware of Federal law: 18 U.S.C §921(a)(26), "The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law." Under State law a "school" is defined as, ""'School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.", Idaho Code 18-3302D(2)(e).

    The State has never made claim that a University or College is a school, as defined under any firearm prohibitions. Nor does 18-3302J specify that a University is a prohibited place, only that the Regents, etc. can regulate firearms.

    What the State cannot do is to delegate a power or authority to the Regents that it (the legislature) does not have.

    So I see a two pronged defense: 1) Universities and colleges have not been traditionally recognized by the State of Idaho as a sensitive place and 2) the State has no authority to disarm its citizens and therefore cannot pass any such authority onto the Regents.

    At least one State already agrees that this is so: University of Utah et al v. Mark Shurtleff, Utah A.G., Case #20030877, wherein the Utah Supreme Court upheld a State law that places the University of Utah under Utah legislation. The specific legislation allows on campus concealed carry by license holders.

    This is all information that I have given Aaron.

    Over and above this, Aaron has related that a friend up in Moscow is seeking to have his State reps amend 18-3302J to specifically include possession in the home. I am trying the same with my reps. Aaron says he doesn't care if the case is mooted, as long as he gets what he wants.

    And that, is where things stand at the moment.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Al,

    That's the kind of pro-2A support that makes a difference. I would not have considered calling the guy and offering what little I know. Good move.

    Thanks for the info and the brain dump.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,521
    White Marsh
    Not to take this thread off track, but how is an anonymous poster on a web forum going to be held liable?

    And for the OP, at least this guy is making use of his law degree. If he is victorious, he had better get an A.

    Forum admin can be compelled to provide the IP address(es) of a given member which can then be tracked back to a likely location. Throw in any information that the user may have volunteered in their posts for added ease of location.
     

    Al Norris

    Spud Head
    Dec 1, 2010
    746
    Rupert, Idaho
    The following has been sent to my State Representatives, Senator Dean Cameron, Rep. Maxine Bell and Rep. John Stevenson:

    Dear xxxx,

    In 2008, the Senate offered S-1441. This bill was designed to place the legislature as wholly occupying the field of firearms regulation. The bill repealed 18-872 and 50-343 and consolidated those authorities in a new section, 18-3302J. During the passage of this bill, the Regents of the University of Idaho raised a big stink, and an exception was carved out. 18-3302J(5)(c) is that exception. The bill was passed and signed into law.

    That same year, the decision of the Supreme Court of the U.S. was delivered in District of Columbia v. Heller (Heller, June 2008), in which the Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment to the Constitution was an individual right, irrespective of any militia duty, and that its core meaning was a right for individuals to keep and bear arms for self-defense of themselves and/or their family, particularly at home, where the need is arguably the greatest.

    A scant two years later (June 2010), in the case of McDonald v. Chicago (McDonald), the Supreme Court again took up the second amendment and ruled that the right was incorporated by the 14th amendments Substantial Due Process clause, as against the States and local governments.

    As of today, there have been 39 civil rights cases filed nationwide, since the McDonald decision was delivered. This litigation has been designed to define the contours of that right. Most of the litigation is a concerted effort by both the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and some few other pro-gunrights organizations. Idaho is now included in this litigation.

    On 01-18-2011, a 36 year old student at UI, filed a lawsuit against the Regents (CV-2011-0000069, Idaho 2nd District, Latah), seeking to change its policy of banning firearms from University property. In specific, this student (a 2nd year law student, married with 2 children and living in married housing) seeks to be able to possess his handgun in the apartment for defense of self and family. He is not seeking to carry on campus.

    With this background, we come to the purpose of this writing.

    It would be in the best interests of the State, to amend 18-3302J(5)(c) to permit students who have passed the State and Federal background checks to obtain a Idaho Concealed Weapons Permit, the ability to keep their firearms in their abodes.

    This would most likely moot the case at bar. It is within keeping of the decision in 1902 of In re Brickey, 8 Idaho 597, which decision has been the binding court decision on all legislative acts as regards firearms.

    I know that this may seem trivial in light of everything the legislature has on its plate. Yet to fail to do something now, may require the Idaho and/or Federal courts to impose even more upon the universities and colleges. Consider the wording of Brickey:

    "While it is, undoubtedly, within the power of the legislature to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, and such regulation is a proper exercise of police power, yet the legislature does not possess the power to prohibit the carrying of firearms, as the right to do so is guaranteed to the citizen both by our federal and state constitutions."​

    Aaron Tribble, the plaintiff in the above case, is currently waiting for a reply by the Regents (due on Feb. 11). Should the Regents reply with a Motion to Dismiss, Aaron will undoubtedly reference this decision. Since the legislature has no power to disarm its citizens, such authority cannot be passed to an agency created by that legislature. The Court would have no recourse but to strike down whatever policies the universities may have, that interferes with the right as defined by Brickey.

    Thank you for any consideration of this matter.

    Al Norris​

    Granted that this is a compromise solution, but one that I think is palatable with both sides of the argument. It also puts us on much the same track as Utah.
     

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