Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Rimfire

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #1
rmbstyle17
Member
 
rmbstyle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Millersville
Posts: 148
multiple shell casing splits

I was shooting my Savage 17 hmr at the range today and noticed that 1 out of every 4 rounds that I shot had a split in the shell casing around the neck. I was shooting Remington Premier .17 HMR Magnum ammo, and shot about 150 rounds, and about 40 had splits in them. So would this be bad ammo, or what?

rmbstyle17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #2
mikec
Senior Member
 
mikec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off I-83
Posts: 11,346
Not sure if this applies but: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...ll-notice.aspx

Yes, it is from last year.
mikec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #3
rmbstyle17
Member
 
rmbstyle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Millersville
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec View Post
Not sure if this applies but: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...ll-notice.aspx

Yes, it is from last year.
the ammo I was shooting was from last year, but I was using a bolt action savage 17 hmr...
rmbstyle17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #4
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Now that is quite interesting. I read that warning not long after it was posted from Remington due to the fact that I shoot the .17HMR myself, however, it was for semi-auto and I use it in my revolver. My question is, I'd be really interested to see you mail that picture to Remington and tell them you'd like to know what the actual cause is for this. They tell you not to use it, but, the purpose of my post is what is the reason this happens.

Now, I'm going to check my cases after I shoot, about 20-30 shots, I get this odd sounding "pop", so, now I wonder if I have been missing something. I keep all of my .17HMR brass after I shoot, so, I'll have to go dig through the can and see what I can find.

side note: My reason for keeping 17HMR brass. I send them to a guy who makes custom drum cymbals. He makes something called a "sizzle" crash where he drills holes in the cymbals and it produces a "sizzle" or "rain" sound.
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #5
leroygibbs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,195
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMDSHOOT View Post
side note: My reason for keeping 17HMR brass. I send them to a guy who makes custom drum cymbals. He makes something called a "sizzle" crash where he drills holes in the cymbals and it produces a "sizzle" or "rain" sound.

More details? That sounds cool! And why only .17?
leroygibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #6
rmbstyle17
Member
 
rmbstyle17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Millersville
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMDSHOOT View Post
Now that is quite interesting. I read that warning not long after it was posted from Remington due to the fact that I shoot the .17HMR myself, however, it was for semi-auto and I use it in my revolver. My question is, I'd be really interested to see you mail that picture to Remington and tell them you'd like to know what the actual cause is for this. They tell you not to use it, but, the purpose of my post is what is the reason this happens.

Now, I'm going to check my cases after I shoot, about 20-30 shots, I get this odd sounding "pop", so, now I wonder if I have been missing something. I keep all of my .17HMR brass after I shoot, so, I'll have to go dig through the can and see what I can find.

side note: My reason for keeping 17HMR brass. I send them to a guy who makes custom drum cymbals. He makes something called a "sizzle" crash where he drills holes in the cymbals and it produces a "sizzle" or "rain" sound.
I will send a email to remington. I could tell everytime this happened, because the "pop" sounded different. I just hope this was not severe enough to cause damage to my rifle...
rmbstyle17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #7
boatbod
Senior Member
 
boatbod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Talbot Co
Posts: 2,817
For the brass to crack like that, there must be room for expansion at the neck, which either means the chamber is cut wrong, or the cartridge isn't fully seated.

I think you should check your headspace and make sure the barrel hasn't somehow moved forward in the action. [Can't see how it could - Savage rimfire barrels are usually pinned to the receiver]
boatbod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #8
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by leroygibbs View Post
More details? That sounds cool! And why only .17?
He likes the longer brass of the .22 mag design and the .17 has a nice taper on the tip so he can slide his caps on and they are not so noticeable.
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #9
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmbstyle17 View Post
I will send a email to remington. I could tell everytime this happened, because the "pop" sounded different. I just hope this was not severe enough to cause damage to my rifle...
exactly. And the "pop" was odd enough to catch my attention. When it happed, I took the rest of the rounds out of the revolver and inspected everything closely to see if maybe the lead got hung up in the barrel, but nothing, I never thought to check the brass casings, but, you bet I will now.
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #10
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbod View Post
For the brass to crack like that, there must be room for expansion at the neck, which either means the chamber is cut wrong, or the cartridge isn't fully seated.

I think you should check your headspace and make sure the barrel hasn't somehow moved forward in the action. [Can't see how it could - Savage rimfire barrels are usually pinned to the receiver]
I noticed the 3rd case was split at the neck, so, I wonder if it is a flaw in the transition from the .22 to the .17 Poor case design ? I have no problems with the Federals or the CCI .17 ammo at all.
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2010, 05:42 AM   #11
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
 
Ab_Normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Carroll County
Posts: 8,531
Have you isolated it to any particular chamber in the cylinder?

Also try comparing different brands side by side and see if the neck is in the same place.


__________________
"No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society." obama addressing a Sandy Hook memorial service 12/16/2012

“There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply, through executive order, ignore those congressional mandates, would not conform with my appropriate role as president.” Barrack Obama 3/28/11 from cnsnews.com
Ab_Normal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2010, 07:02 AM   #12
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab_Normal View Post
Have you isolated it to any particular chamber in the cylinder?

Also try comparing different brands side by side and see if the neck is in the same place.
It didn't seem to be an issue with the cylinder I took the time to make a small dot on the chambers that this happened in and after a few weeks I have dots on all 7 (Taurus Tracker 17SS6). And as I mentioned previously, I have had not a single issue when using the Federal or CCI ammo.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg taurustracker17hmr.jpg (20.1 KB, 127 views)
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #13
Ab_Normal
Ab_member
 
Ab_Normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Carroll County
Posts: 8,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMDSHOOT View Post
It didn't seem to be an issue with the cylinder I took the time to make a small dot on the chambers that this happened in and after a few weeks I have dots on all 7 (Taurus Tracker 17SS6). And as I mentioned previously, I have had not a single issue when using the Federal or CCI ammo.
I meant to stand two cartridges up side by side and look or maybe take some measurements with a caliper.


__________________
"No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society." obama addressing a Sandy Hook memorial service 12/16/2012

“There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply, through executive order, ignore those congressional mandates, would not conform with my appropriate role as president.” Barrack Obama 3/28/11 from cnsnews.com
Ab_Normal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2010, 03:30 PM   #14
Joseph
Member
 
Joseph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Clinton MD
Posts: 797
rmbstyle17, Those cracks look like classic stress corrosion cracking (SCC) to me. Brass is susceptible to SCC providing there is a corrosive which attacks brass, and the brass is under stress. The stress would be the hoop stress caused by the bullet pressed into the neck of the case.

Look up SCC or "seasonal cracking"

If you really want to know what the cause was PM me and send me one of them.


__________________
-----------------------------------------------



Ή ταν ή επί τας

Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once. -Evan Esar
Joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #15
SOMDSHOOT
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Indian Head
Posts: 5,561
Images: 5
Send a message via Yahoo to SOMDSHOOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab_Normal View Post
I meant to stand two cartridges up side by side and look or maybe take some measurements with a caliper.
oh ok, I understand what you mean now. I have not actually but I will this evening. That's a good idea, I might even break the calipers out too.
SOMDSHOOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #16
fogman
Member
 
fogman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Demokratischen Volksrepublik von Maryland
Posts: 385
There was a long discussion about cracked case necks on the 17HMR on Rimfirecentral.com. Cracked case necks are inherent with the 17HMR. Has to do with not being able to anneal the necks after sizing them down to .17. The cases start out as .22 magnum cases and the priming compound is put in the rim. The necks are then sized down to .17. Because the priming compound is in the rim, the cases cannot be heated to anneal the brass leaving them brittle from the sizing operation. I've had cracked case necks in all brands of 17HMR ammo that I have tried, that's why I would never own a semiauto .17HMR.
fogman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #17
jjbduke2004
Senior Member
 
jjbduke2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Morris Oblast, NJ SSR
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMDSHOOT View Post
It didn't seem to be an issue with the cylinder I took the time to make a small dot on the chambers that this happened in and after a few weeks I have dots on all 7 (Taurus Tracker 17SS6). And as I mentioned previously, I have had not a single issue when using the Federal or CCI ammo.
Odd, I thought I remembered hearing that CCI loaded all .17 rimfire ammo in the country as they're the only manufacturer of primed cases. Even if it says Remington, it's just Remington telling CCI what bullet to put in it and what the velocity desired is. Maybe a bad lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fogman View Post
There was a long discussion about cracked case necks on the 17HMR on Rimfirecentral.com. Cracked case necks are inherent with the 17HMR. Has to do with not being able to anneal the necks after sizing them down to .17. The cases start out as .22 magnum cases and the priming compound is put in the rim. The necks are then sized down to .17. Because the priming compound is in the rim, the cases cannot be heated to anneal the brass leaving them brittle from the sizing operation. I've had cracked case necks in all brands of 17HMR ammo that I have tried, that's why I would never own a semiauto .17HMR.
Pretty much every semi-auto .17 was recalled by the manufacturers.


__________________
-JJB
Got XTC??? NRA High Power Service Rifle Expert. Garand and 1903A3 aficionado.
Member of ANJRPC (& Cherry Ridge Range), SAF (life), and NRA (Patron)
jjbduke2004 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #18
Idempotent
Zombies' Worst Nightmare
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,620
So there's nothing inherently wrong with using .17 HMR in a semi-auto, it's just that the ammunition is so craptastic that it can't handle it? As in theoretically if you made your own .17 HMR somehow, and did it properly, it would work fine in a semi-auto?
Idempotent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #19
jjbduke2004
Senior Member
 
jjbduke2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Morris Oblast, NJ SSR
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idempotent View Post
So there's nothing inherently wrong with using .17 HMR in a semi-auto, it's just that the ammunition is so craptastic that it can't handle it? As in theoretically if you made your own .17 HMR somehow, and did it properly, it would work fine in a semi-auto?
I thought there was something about blowback actions and bottleneck cartridges not working very well.


__________________
-JJB
Got XTC??? NRA High Power Service Rifle Expert. Garand and 1903A3 aficionado.
Member of ANJRPC (& Cherry Ridge Range), SAF (life), and NRA (Patron)
jjbduke2004 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2010, 06:22 AM   #20
boatbod
Senior Member
 
boatbod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Talbot Co
Posts: 2,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbduke2004 View Post
I thought there was something about blowback actions and bottleneck cartridges not working very well.
Exactly.

Dirty chamber + bottleneck cartridge + blowback action = OOB waiting to happen.

With the higher pressure of the .17HMR, an OOB might well be a lot more dangerous than your typical .22LR event.
boatbod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Rimfire


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2013, Maryland Shooters, LLC