CRESAP - Don't Bring Your SBR, it's not welcome anymore

No Notice on their website or at the range...

I bring my form 1 registered SBR, I am told I cannot shoot any NFA weapons there. I swap uppers, and I am allowed to shoot. I point out that despite switching uppers, my AR is still an NFA rifle because the tax stamp doesn't follow the upper but the lower. Story then changes to that the barrel length is the problem and I am not allowed to shoot an SBR.

I was lucky that I brought a second upper along or I would have wasted over an hour driving each way to shoot at CRESAP. The website says no class III firearms now... So does that mean that I cannot bring my AR with the 20 inch upper because it's a class three weapon. I know CRESAP members read this forum, I look forward to an intelligent discussion of this "new" and rather unpopular policy.

Personally, I am disappointed with CRESAP for the change in policy. I recently applied for membership and was denied. In the interest of full disclosure I want to make it clear that my post is not motivated by this denial. While I am disappointed that my application was denied, I understand that they are not interested in new members that they do not know on a personal level and have sponsorship from inside the club for... that is certainly their right and I respect that.

I will continue to shoot at and support CRESAP through my donations, but I am disappointed in this recent change in policy regarding SBR's.

Mark

i go to cresap frequently and also belong to the range next door monocacy pistol club. Cresap is a great place to shoot. they are very safe and very nice people running it. they have 50 and 100 feet targets. not very long. they also don't like rapid firing. its not a big range and i can understand the rules. when i want to rapid fire my handguns of .22 rifle or 12ga shotgun with birdshot i go to private range next door. monocacy pistol range does not allow rifles. thats why i go to cresap to shoot my mini 14.

I didn't realize there was a club next door, I thought all the rapid fire pistol was LEO training or something. I have no problems with CRESAP's stance on safety or rapid fire, although I would prefer to be allowed to, but barring SBR's has nothing to do with safety.

Mark

if you would like to join the pistol club let me know and i could show you around. here is there website http://www.monocacypistolclub.com/

Ruh-roh, looks like Cresap may lose some folks.

Obama-admin running the place now?

knot kewl....

Markp said:

I will continue to shoot at and support CRESAP through my donations, but I am disappointed in this recent change in policy regarding SBR's.

Mark

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I wouldn't. Vote with your dollars.

Markp said:

No Notice on their website

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There is notice...
http://www.cresaprifleclub.com/facilities.html Directly under the Rules and Safety section is says:
UPDATE: Cresap's can not permit any Class 3 firearm at the range. We appreciate your cooperation.

I put it there myself the day after the BOD decided to included SBR's with our already public policy against Full Auto and Suppressed firearms.

Bottom line is we do not own the land you shoot on... As a result we can not make all the rules. There was a choice handed to us... Enforce ALL Class 3 guns or run the risk of not being able to shoot... period. The members of Cresap's are working hard to secure a long term lease that will allow us to set the rules for what can and can not happen. We state clearly that the mission of our club is to provide a safe and well equipped facility where people could enjoy the shooting sport.

And to say that Cresap's is not looking for new members is totally incorrect. I am sorry that not everyone is approved but we look for certain characteristics and personality traits that ensure that we can maintain a safe and comfortable environment. If you are able to come in sponsored you have a much easier time of joining the club. There have been 6 new members since the spring.

We are short handed with Range Officers. We need and welcome new members! Some members are volunteering to work 300 - 400% more than required just so we can stay open to the public!

Some FACTS:

• Cresap donates Range time to Federal and Local Law enforcement so they can trainer their officers
• Cresap offers almost FREE NRA certified hand gun classes to over 125 women each year
• Cresap has allowed the History Channel to use the range for the TALES of the GUN video taping to further promote the shooting sport
• Cresap regularly donates proceeds to the community, families in need, and schools
• All Cresap members are volunteers NO One is paid for their time
• Cresap hosts gun safety classes for the Boy Scouts and interested group.
• Cresap members advocate for hunters rights
• Cresap sends a Junior Team to Camp Perry every year with not charge to the kids.

I will get off my soap box...

Yes I am member of Cresap and yes, I too am disappointed about no SBR's...

But please understand where and why the decisions were made before you start accusing...

Topher said:

Bottom line is we do not own the land you shoot on... As a result we can not make all the rules. There was a choice handed to us... Enforce ALL Class 3 guns or stop shooting.

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things always make more sence once the reason for the change is explained.

good luck securing a long term lease that enables more freedom.

Topher said:

There is notice...
http://www.cresaprifleclub.com/facilities.html Directly under the Rules and Safety section is says:
UPDATE: Cresap's can not permit any Class 3 firearm at the range. We appreciate your cooperation.

I put it there myself the day after the BOD decided to included SBR's with our already public policy against Full Auto and Suppressed firearms.

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And the range rules on the website directly contradict this, personally, when I think class 3, I think full auto.

The range rules specifically state that "NFA weapons are not permitted without the proper tax stamp." Implying that they are allowed with the proper tax stamp since Machine Guns are specifically prohibited.

That said, I did not see it on the website the day I went shooting, it's small and hard to spot. As a matter of fact, I didn't notice it until I went looking for it yesterday and it took me a while to spot it.

This still leaves me with the question, can I shoot my NFA registered AR-15 with a 20 inch HB upper on it? It sounds like the answer is no. In which case you need to instruct the staff at CRESAP that changing uppers is not an acceptable solution, since the weapon is still class 3.

And to say that Cresap's is not looking for new members is totally incorrect. I am sorry that not everyone is approved but we look for certain characteristics and personality traits that ensure that we can maintain a safe and comfortable environment. If you are able to come in sponsored you have a much easier time of joining the club. There have been 6 new members since the spring.

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I KNOW HOW TO READ. Tell me how I misinterpreted below:

Hello Mark,

During the July Board Meeting the decision is to continue to only accept new member applications from individuals that are sponsored by a regular club member in accordance with the clubs By Laws. No open membership applications will be accepted. Since your application has no sponsorship your application has been Disapproved at this time. You are welcome to use the facility when we a open to the public in the weekends. We appreciate your support and donations.

We thank you for your interest in joining the club but no further action will
be taken by the Membership Committee.

Sincerely,
XXXXX XXXXX
CRESAP Rifle Club
Membership Committee

I will get off my soap box...

Yes I am member of Cresap and yes, I too am disappointed about no SBR's...

But please understand where and why the decisions were made before you start accusing...

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I was TOLD by Jimmy (one of your members) that the club had made the decision to prohibit SBR's and that it was the club leadership that had made this decision, additionally he stated that the NFA was not the issue but that the barrel length was the issue. I got this information from a CRESAP member. I am not accusing I am repeating what I was told in person by CRESAP members or emailed. You might want to consider that before impugning my character.

You also might want to update your range rules.

Mark

PS - I do want to be clear. I appreciate all that your club does for the sport, and I hold your club in very high regard. I like you guys as a group and I will still support the range through my activity there.

I am a Class 3 collector and have been to Cresap a couple of times.I too have been prevented from using some items . However, I respect their commitment to providing the public with facilities that are safe. I also understand that a lot of people have biased information about class 3 firearms and this brings about flack to many ranges. I am sure that there are sufficient reasons why they came up with the class 3 exclusions. It would be wrong to judge based on the limited information that most of us have.

I respect the Rules that Cresap has implemented on restricting class 3 firearms from being used at the range. I am just happy that they choose to still allow the public to use the facilities.We cant expect them to cater to everyone and class 3 folks are minorities in the shooting sport. I have been to many ranges and I feel that the folks at Cresap do run one of the safest, efficient and affordable ranges in the area. If restricting class 3 firearms allows them to stay open and serve the masses, then so be it.

I am sorry that not everyone is approved but we look for certain characteristics and personality traits that ensure that we can maintain a safe and comfortable environment.

Ha!

Below are a few notes about me and my character. I was denied membership without being given a reason. I strongly suspect it had to do with my asking questions at club meetings (the horror!)...

Cresap, while providing an extremely useful venue for limited types of recreational shooting, is the worst kind of exclusive old-boy club, and you all know it. The fact that you all choose to continue that culture, instead of working to change it, says volumes about you.

Bill Prudden

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/art_life/display_horizon.htm?storyID=88220

http://www.gazette.net/stories/042006/brunnew194331_31968.shtml

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/243_WSSM.asp

Mark,

I am also a member of Cresap and feel the need to respond to this post...

Markp said:

And the range rules on the website directly contradict this, personally, when I think class 3, I think full auto.

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But, it is not just full auto.

Markp said:

The range rules specifically state that "NFA weapons are not permitted without the proper tax stamp." Implying that they are allowed with the proper tax stamp since Machine Guns are specifically prohibited.

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The rule that we do not allow NFA class 3 firearms has always existed. This was put into place a long time ago before SBR's were so popular and people could easily build one. That part of the range rules was added while we were addressing the issue of SBR's to give the public the benefit of the doubt until we had a chance to review the ramifications. See, you have to understand that SBR's have not always been around like they are today. This is a relatively new phenomena. The board took on the subject just recently and after careful research we decided to err on the side of caution. The range rules do need to be updated. We are working on that now. Again, let me point out that we are all volunteers. We do this on our own time with our own resources. I apologize if we did not move quick enough for you and you had to make a long drive.

Markp said:

That said, I did not see it on the website the day I went shooting, it's small and hard to spot. As a matter of fact, I didn't notice it until I went looking for it yesterday and it took me a while to spot it.

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That is fair. We will take that criticism. The site is not perfect. It was designed by members for free in their spare time. I am working on a new revision as we speak that will have a "PUBLIC NOTICES" section that is very clear and concise. I will incorporate your feedback into our new design.

Markp said:

This still leaves me with the question, can I shoot my NFA registered AR-15 with a 20 inch HB upper on it? It sounds like the answer is no. In which case you need to instruct the staff at CRESAP that changing uppers is not an acceptable solution, since the weapon is still class 3.

Click to expand...

You are correct, no class 3 firearms. We are working to educate the members of the club. Again, remember that this a completely voluntary organization and the members only work select range days. We are doing the best we can with the resources and time we have as volunteers.

Markp said:

I KNOW HOW TO READ. Tell me how I misinterpreted below:

Hello Mark,

During the July Board Meeting the decision is to continue to only accept new member applications from individuals that are sponsored by a regular club member in accordance with the clubs By Laws. No open membership applications will be accepted. Since your application has no sponsorship your application has been Disapproved at this time. You are welcome to use the facility when we a open to the public in the weekends. We appreciate your support and donations.

We thank you for your interest in joining the club but no further action will
be taken by the Membership Committee.

Sincerely,
Hiram
CRESAP Rifle Club
Membership Committee

I was TOLD by Jimmy (one of your members) that the club had made the decision to prohibit SBR's and that it was the club leadership that had made this decision, additionally he stated that the NFA was not the issue but that the barrel length was the issue. I got this information from a CRESAP member. I am not accusing I am repeating what I was told in person by CRESAP members or emailed. You might want to consider that before impugning my character.

You also might want to update your range rules.

Mark

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Mark, there was no reason to post the letter from the membership committee here on an open forum. You say that you do not hold a grudge against the club for denying your membership but then why did you post this? How is this related to the OP about class 3 firearms. I am sorry man but you seem to be quite upset about our decision and your actions here show us that our decision was spot on. I am not being confrontational or rude. I am simply stating the facts as I see them. I would ask that we take this discussion offline. Please feel free to email me at pryker@gmail.com or call me at 443-557-8381 and I would be more than happy to discuss this with you.

Markp said:

PS - I do want to be clear. I appreciate all that your club does for the sport, and I hold your club in very high regard. I like you guys as a group and I will still support the range through my activity there.

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Please do not take my post as offensive either. We appreciate your patronage and encourage you to see both sides of the story here. We have an obligation to the community, our lease holder and the general public to take safety seriously while promoting the shooting sport. We do look forward to having you up again and will always welcome you.

Thanks

Phil

billprudden said:

I am sorry that not everyone is approved but we look for certain characteristics and personality traits that ensure that we can maintain a safe and comfortable environment.

Ha!

Below are a few notes about me and my character. I was denied membership without being given a reason. I strongly suspect it had to do with my asking questions at club meetings (the horror!)...

Cresap, while providing an extremely useful venue for limited types of recreational shooting, is the worst kind of exclusive old-boy club, and you all know it. The fact that you all choose to continue that culture, instead of working to change it, says volumes about you.

Bill Prudden

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/art_life/display_horizon.htm?storyID=88220

http://www.gazette.net/stories/042006/brunnew194331_31968.shtml

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/243_WSSM.asp

Click to expand...

Bill,

Old boys club?

I am a new member. I went through the screening process with no issues. I had no personal family friends or relatives that were members. Heck, I did not know anyone really. What I did use was common sense. I went up there several times to shoot to demonstrate my commitment to safety and the shooting sports. I made friends with the RO's and simply helped out. After proving myself as a potential member I applied for membership with a sponsor and it was approved.

Seems simple to me. I have been to several business meetings and they have all been run very smooth and respectful of everyone. I am sorry that you have had a bad experience but I am living proof that what you say is wrong.

Phil

billprudden said:

Cresap, while providing an extremely useful venue for limited types of recreational shooting, is the worst kind of exclusive old-boy club, and you all know it. The fact that you all choose to continue that culture, instead of working to change it, says volumes about you.

Bill Prudden

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I grew up in Baltimore.
I moved to Frederick as a adult.
I shot at Cresaps' for about a year before I joined.
I have no Frederick County or local roots.
One year after joining I was voted in as a member of the Board of Directors

How does that equate to being a Good Ole Boy's Club???

Basically you have not idea what the club has planned or is working on... Do you?

Cresap members will no longer post in this thread. I think we have said our peace. We would be more than happy to address issues over the phone but will not through email or on a public forum. I believe the mdshooters.com community can make their own judgment call from simply reading this thread. I can be reached at 443-557-8381 if anyone wants to talk.

Thanks

Phil

P.Ryker said:

Mark,
Mark, there was no reason to post the letter from the membership committee here on an open forum. You say that you do not hold a grudge against the club for denying your membership but then why did you post this?

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I posted it because Chris essentially said I was lying about the membership policy and denying new members, it's evidence that I was not lying. He said it was because of my character, which coincidentally you are now saying as well. I noted that I was rejected for membership (without saying why) in the initial post in the interest of avoiding the issue of bias. I didn't a member of CRESAP to come in here and state that it was this reason that I made the post.

You are entitled to feel that I am "unsuitable" for your club. You felt your decision was "spot on" because I will not tolerate someone lying about what the reason for my application was rejected. I seriously doubt that my character is the question. I will not stand by and allow someone to tell me that my character is a problem when that is clearly not the case. I could go on and on about evidence that supports my good character including my military service, my professional background, my awards, and my history of giving back to the community.

So make up your minds, is my character the problem? Or is it as stated in the letter that you are not accepting open applications?

If it is my character, I challenge you to be specific and state what flaws exist in my character. As a doctoral student in psychology, I am sure that I will find it amusing to say the least.

Mark

PS - I did try calling you, but evidently you are busy.

I said we would not post again but I am going to break my own rule and post once more...

Mark took the high road and did call me to discuss. I believe we had a good conversation on the phone. I would like to thank Mark for his service to our country! I am going to make some recommendations to the board at the next business meeting that will help us to avoid this type of incident in the future. Thanks Mark for your feedback and humble tone on the call.

Iron sharpens iron!

Phil

P.Ryker said:

I said we would not post again but I am going to break my own rule and post once more...

Mark took the high road and did call me to discuss. I believe we had a good conversation on the phone. I would like to thank Mark for his service to our country! I am going to make some recommendations to the board at the next business meeting that will help us to avoid this type of incident in the future. Thanks Mark for your feedback and humble tone on the call.

Iron sharpens iron!

Phil

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I felt the same way about the call.

Mark

PS - Thank your son's for their service, and I suspect you probably have served yourself, in which case. Thank you.

Since I call Cresap my home range, I'm glad that this thread is ending on a positive note. Also I think it shows the power of real communication in resolving issues.

My hat's off to the RO's there. I constantly see the same faces there whenever I shoot, and I know they are all volunteers sacrificing their own personal time on the weekends so those of us can have a place to shoot.

Looking forward to seeing you guys at the range!

-amish