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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:14 PM   #1
swinokur
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Hickok 45 and the Tavor

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Old January 4th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #2
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Nice.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #3
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That was pretty cool. I'd like to see some long range shots.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:15 PM   #4
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The more I see these things, the more I want one.


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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:33 PM   #5
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I really want one of those!


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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #6
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Hickok 45 is one of the best representatives of the 2A community IMO
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #7
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I think the Tavor is the wave of the future; and legal, for now at least, in Maryland so long as it meets the minimum length requirements and mag cap requirements.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #8
clandestine
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IMO they are overpriced pieces of junk. Couldn't pay me to own one.

Fanboys gonna fan.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clandestine View Post
IMO they are overpriced pieces of junk. Couldn't pay me to own one.

Fanboys gonna fan.
The Israelis live in a constant state of war and this is the weapon they chose to defend themselves with. That is significant, isn't it?

By junk, do you mean they were designed to be "disposable" and easily replaced?

I believe the first polymer firearms in the USA were considered "overpriced junk" too but the value is in the weight reduction, which is a different value from artful metallurgy.

As a polymer battle rifle, what's a fair valuation/selling price--absent the hype?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #10
clandestine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rack&Roll View Post
The Israelis live in a constant state of war and this is the weapon they chose to defend themselves with. That is significant, isn't it?

By junk, do you mean they were designed to be "disposable" and easily replaced?

I believe the first polymer firearms in the USA were considered "overpriced junk" too but the value is in the weight reduction, which is a different value from artful metallurgy.

As a polymer battle rifle, what's a fair valuation/selling price--absent the hype?
They are a problem searching for a solution just like Gas Piston AR's. You get a shorter package and that's the only advantage over an M4 that the Israelis used before. I have messed with them and I conveyed my opinion, it dosent sit well with you, oh well.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clandestine View Post
IMO they are overpriced pieces of junk. Couldn't pay me to own one.

Fanboys gonna fan.
I'm not a fanboy, but I am curious. What's so bad about the Tavor?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:53 PM   #12
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I'm not a fanboy, but I am curious. What's so bad about the Tavor?
First one the shop got we broke in 10 mins. I don't have pictures. I have no vested interest in the success or failure of the Tavor. I stated a personal opinion as a Gunsmith.

Next, where are the suppliers for replacement parts? Machines break, even one I like. If there are suppliers I will concede this part of my dislike.

Would you buy a car that you cant get parts for?
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Old January 4th, 2014, 10:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clandestine View Post
They are a problem searching for a solution just like Gas Piston AR's. You get a shorter package and that's the only advantage over an M4 that the Israelis used before. I have messed with them and I conveyed my opinion, it dosent sit well with you, oh well.
No, not offended, just curious. I recall reading the Israelis wanted this Overall Length because they wanted to be able to exit vehicles with the muzzle up, and swinging, to face threats.

It seems the short OAL was also important when facing the tight spaces, small rooms, and narrow passageways where threats could be coming from--in other words, room clearing and neighborhood clearing.

Of course this doesn't deal with the way they are made or ruggedness...
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Old January 4th, 2014, 11:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by clandestine View Post
First one the shop got we broke in 10 mins. I don't have pictures. I have no vested interest in the success or failure of the Tavor. I stated a personal opinion as a Gunsmith.

Next, where are the suppliers for replacement parts? Machines break, even one I like. If there are suppliers I will concede this part of my dislike.

Would you buy a car that you cant get parts for?
I smell what you're stepping in.

There's a reason why my gun safe is full of Glocks and ARs. Reliability, parts availability, and a proven track record is extremely important to me.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 11:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by annihilation-time View Post
I smell what you're stepping in.

There's a reason why my gun safe is full of Glocks and ARs. Reliability, parts availability, and a proven track record is extremely important to me.
That's what's important to me as well.

Even though Im a Smith I DONT want guns that need have impossible to find replacement parts or need fitting of replacement parts. Not that the Tavor does need parts to be fitted, but that's a sticking point for me for any firearm I own to actually shoot.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 11:22 PM   #16
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Getting parts is as easy as picking up the phone and calling IWI US in Harrisburg. I had to order a new flash hider locking nut and it took two whole days. Aftermarket parts are coming but there really isn't much to "customize". The usual players are already designing/releasing triggers. The Tavor is not a modular weapon like the AR so there isn't going to be a massive "parts" selection. Lets also not forget that the Tavor has only been available to the public for a year. The AR has been around for decades.
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Old January 5th, 2014, 12:43 AM   #17
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If you look at pictures of the old city of Jerusalem you will immediately see why the Israelis really wanted a bullpup configuration. That part of the world has tons of extremely narrow streets and alleyways. It is nothing like a modern US city over there. Short OAL is going to be a real advantage in that kind of challenging environment.

But is it something you'd ever really need here? Maybe? Probably not? I don't really know the answer to that. I don't really have a dog in this fight either way. The Tavor seemed cool-looking to me, but I couldn't really figure out a compelling reason to have one. There always seems to be something else I want a lot more. I've never even handled one so I certainly can't say anything one way or the other about durability issues.

What I do know: If Clandestine says something sucks - his views carry a lot of weight with me.
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Old January 5th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #18
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I know several guys that purchased them when they became available and where having me try to help sell them shortly after. Its not that it didn't function or wasn't a quality product it was just more of a ..."why did I buy this expensive proprietary rifle?" I'd pick up one of my Colt M4s long before I'd select the Tavor is a moment of need. Has anyone tired one of these at medium distance of lets say 200-300 yards on steel?
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Old January 5th, 2014, 02:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rack&Roll View Post
The Israelis live in a constant state of war and this is the weapon they chose to defend themselves with. That is significant, isn't it?
honestly, this seems like the definition of that hype he was talking about
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Old January 5th, 2014, 04:30 AM   #20
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Not a fan. They look hideous and I understand their triggers suck.

Just my. 02. I wouldnt have one.


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