Thanks to the EPA, Ammo prices will jump

RCH · Oct 27, 2013

This Administration is very, very sneaky:

End of an Era: Last U.S. Lead Smelter to Close in December

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...ast-us-lead-smelter-to-close-in-december.aspx

So the EPA passes air quality standards for lead that are 10 times more restrictive then before- effectively shutting the 120 year old Doe Run Company down. So except for recycling sources, US manufacture of lead is going to be kaput as of December. And if the ammo makers can't obtain lead easily or cheaply, guess who is going to pay for this bullcrap... :mad54:

pbharvey · Oct 27, 2013

What is clear is that after the Herculaneum smelter closes its doors in December, entirely domestic manufacture of conventional ammunition, from raw ore to finished cartridge, will be impossible.

The EPA trumps national security...again.

WeaponsCollector · Oct 27, 2013

You can get 300lbs of lead on ebay right now for $400.

Brooklyn · Oct 27, 2013

Steel core? Frangible HP? Anyone think they get good ballistics with frangible HP?

marte616 · Oct 27, 2013

Standby for ammo panic buying this holiday season in 3,2,1......

QuebecoisWolf · Oct 27, 2013

It's for the children.

danb · Oct 27, 2013

This is not really the "last" lead smelter in the US. There is a lead smelting and recycling facility in PA, and when i googled it i found a bunch of smaller ones.

for example, see here:
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20130217-editorial-closing-smelters-is-no-solution.ece

This plant was certainly the biggest and last one to process raw ore, but most lead (80%) goes into batteries not ammo, and most lead production comes from battery recycling.

Lead is also a very common byproduct of other ore processing (like zinc and copper).

That said, the EPA policy boils down to: let the Mexicans and Canadians get sick due to lead smelting. On balance, its probably worse for the environment because Mexican and Chinese environmental standards are pretty bad.

jaybee · Oct 27, 2013

danb said:
This is not really the "last" lead smelter in the US.

That said, the EPA policy boils down to: let the Mexicans and Canadians get sick due to lead smelting. On balance, its probably worse for the environment because Mexican and Chinese environmental standards are pretty bad.

saw a show on TV about a foundry in india making manhole covers
- no exhaust system
- no breathing system
- workers wearing, sandals, shorts and a tee shirt
- no medical insurance, retirement etc
- if a worker gets sick they get another
- dirty, dusty, no lights
- workers hand carrying ladles of melted steel wearing sandals

at the end of the show, they showed the finished manhole cover..

It said .... PROPERTY OF CITY OF BALTIMORE
:sad20:

Scratch · Oct 27, 2013

RCH said:
This Administration is very, very sneaky:

Sneaky indeed, considering the EPA regs were passed in November 2008.

K31 · Oct 27, 2013

danb said:
That said, the EPA policy boils down to: let the Mexicans and Canadians get sick due to lead smelting. On balance, its probably worse for the environment because Mexican and Chinese environmental standards are pretty bad.

Maybe. Knowing the EPA the previous standard probably called for someone to be able to suck on the chimney of the plant for 12 hours a day for 100 years and have less than one part per one gazillinth in their blood.

So yet another industry shipped overseas. I saw on Fox News that the number one occupation today is government sponge with over 100 million on assistance so pretty soon we won't need any jobs.

AntiGun · Oct 27, 2013

K31 said:
Maybe. Knowing the EPA the previous standard probably called for someone to be able to suck on the chimney of the plant for 12 hours a day for 100 years and have less than one part per one gazillinth in their blood.

So yet another industry shipped overseas. I saw on Fox News that the number one occupation today is government sponge with over 100 million on assistance so pretty soon we won't need any jobs.

When can I be sponge worthy?

madchestermonkey · Oct 27, 2013

jaybee said:
saw a show on TV about a foundry in india making manhole covers
- no exhaust system
- no breathing system
- workers wearing, sandals, shorts and a tee shirt
- no medical insurance, retirement etc
- if a worker gets sick they get another
- dirty, dusty, no lights
- workers hand carrying ladles of melted steel wearing sandals

at the end of the show, they showed the finished manhole cover..

It said .... PROPERTY OF CITY OF BALTIMORE

I'm in Crystal city for the marine Corp marathon and the manhole next to me says made in india, guess its just cheaper to ship them.

jaybee · Oct 27, 2013

madchestermonkey said:
I'm in Crystal city for the marine Corp marathon and the manhole next to me says made in india, guess its just cheaper to ship them.

I couldn't walk into our machine shop without wearing safety glasses

the guys in india wore sandals shorts and a tee shirt - that's it, period

they were using a two man ladle because manhole covers are pretty heavy.

I worked in a foundry and when molten metal hits the ground it splatters and that 2,000 degree melted metal can burn right thru you.

if the EPA cared about protecting people they wouldn't send jobs to places that have NO safety or health standards

Scratch · Oct 27, 2013

jaybee said:
I couldn't walk into our machine shop without wearing safety glasses

the guys in india wore sandals shorts and a tee shirt - that's it, period

they were using a two man ladle because manhole covers are pretty heavy.

I worked in a foundry and when molten metal hits the ground it splatters and that 2,000 degree melted metal can burn right thru you.

if the EPA cared about protecting people they wouldn't send jobs to places that have NO safety or health standards

Since EPA can't dictate safety regs in India, what exactly are you advocating?

danb · Oct 27, 2013

jaybee said:
if the EPA cared about protecting people they wouldn't send jobs to places that have NO safety or health standards

This exactly correct but people don't get it. Yesterday I came back from an unsuccessful hunting trip and a liberal NY friend said, so you are unhappy because you did not kill anything? I said, do you eat meat? Of course they do (not only that, they are Jewish and eat pork), but somehow if somebody else kills the animal and deals with the mess its different. It's sanitized. Your meat does not come in little styrofoam packages. Then they cracked about how at least I do not hunt with an assault rifle.

Sometimes I think the liberal mindset is less about protecting the environment than protecting their environment at the expense of someone else's.

It's fine to make solar panels and cellphone screens in China where coal is king and the river is orange, because the mess was not made in the USA.

jaybee · Oct 27, 2013

Scratch said:
Since EPA can't dictate safety regs in India, what exactly are you advocating?

I'm saying the EPA is not helping the global environment or people

they are shutting down businesses that are 95% pollution free because they use are using scrubbers, filters etc
and
Sending those industries to areas that are maybe 1% pollution free

Bottom line - the EPA is contributing to Global Pollution

the winds and water are shared by everybody
:mad54:

Scratch · Oct 27, 2013

We should just do away with the EPA entirely. Then things will be better, natch. :thumbsup:

jaybee · Oct 27, 2013

Scratch said:
We should just do away with the EPA entirely. Then things will be better, natch.

The EPA should have some Common Sense

the product will still be made in this nieghborhood we call a planet

be it a 95% pollution free plant here or a 1% pollution free plant in india

some say it ain't my problem, but..

the imported shrimp, fish, vegtables we eat, that grew in that pond/field down stream from that plant. hmmmm

The USDA already said that it only checks 1% of imported food and probably less today

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-16-imported-food_N.htm

Streetgang · Oct 27, 2013

jaybee said:
The EPA should have some Common Sense

the product will still be made in this nieghborhood we call a planet

be it a 95% pollution free plant here or a 1% pollution free plant in india

some say it ain't my problem, but..

the imported shrimp, fish, vegtables we eat, that grew in that pond/field down stream from that plant. hmmmm

The USDA already said that it only checks 1% of imported food and probably less today

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-16-imported-food_N.htm

This...all the EPA did was succeed in shipping jobs and profits overseas AND increase pollution..
Well done.

NOT!

K31 · Oct 27, 2013

jaybee said:
I'm saying the EPA is not helping the global environment or people

they are shutting down businesses that are 95% pollution free because they use are using scrubbers, filters etc
and
Sending those industries to areas that are maybe 1% pollution free

Bottom line - the EPA is contributing to Global Pollution

Excellent point and actually, they are making things worse by forcing industries that have some or even good standards to places where there are none. And it all comes back to us in any case. China and other like countries are making our food, our medicine, even the components of our medicine so you can't even trust a drug if the label says it was US made.

Thanks to the EPA, Ammo prices will jump

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