Questions about being co-owner of a business and on-property carry/CCW

pilotguy299 · Jun 1, 2015

CypherPunk said:
Cite?

http://www.semmes.com/publications/cases/2013/09/blue-v-pg-county.asp

Blue v. Prince George’s County, No. 87, slip op. at 16 (Md. Sept. 27, 2013)

In Blue v. Prince George’s County, the Maryland Court of Appeals interpreted the scope of an exception to Maryland’s general prohibition against carrying handguns, which permits an employee — with his or her employer’s permission — to carry a handgun “within the confines of the business establishment.” Md. Code Ann., Crim. Law § 4-203(b)(7)(ii). The Court ultimately found that the “confines of the business establishment” did not extend to an open parking lot adjacent to an employer’s nightclub, regardless of whether the employer gave its head of security permission to carry a firearm on the premises. Three judges dissented, finding that the Court’s majority opinion interpreted the exception too narrowly. Rather, the dissent found that the exception would extend onto a privately held adjacent parking lot.

http://www.mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2013/87a12.pdf

TheBert · Jun 1, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
As to the above, I discussed with a lawyer somewhat recently - "within the confines" does not include the parking lot.

If you own the land why would it be any different than the land your house is built on?

Mark75H · Jun 1, 2015

TheBert said:
If you own the land why would it be any different than the land your house is built on?

If said parking lot is common to other businesses, that's why it could/would be different. Strip mall/shopping center vs single property.

A parking lot fully on a single property with a single business with a clear driveway/road between the parking lot and state/county/municpal road/street would probably be seen as same as the land your house is built on.

CypherPunk · Jun 1, 2015

Mark75H said:
If said parking lot is common to other businesses, that's why it could/would be different. Strip mall/shopping center vs single property.

A parking lot fully on a single property with a single business with a clear driveway/road between the parking lot and state/county/municpal road/street would probably be seen as same as the land your house is built on.

I don't think that is the reason.
An employee has no ownership interest in the land owned by his/her employer.
Someone upon his or her place of residence - totally different story.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 2, 2015

In the Blue case , the criminal charges were quickly droped. Blue then unsucuessfully sued the County for false arrest.

As I recall the situation , it was a dedicated parking lot , albeit open. Would a fenced parking lot be treated differently ? Maybe , but someone would need to be a test case.

CypherPunk · Jun 2, 2015

TheBert said:
If you own the land why would it be any different than the land your house is built on?

Employee vs resident

redeemed.man · Jun 2, 2015

pilotguy299 said:
http://www.semmes.com/publications/cases/2013/09/blue-v-pg-county.asp

Blue v. Prince George’s County, No. 87, slip op. at 16 (Md. Sept. 27, 2013)

In Blue v. Prince George’s County, the Maryland Court of Appeals interpreted the scope of an exception to Maryland’s general prohibition against carrying handguns, which permits an employee — with his or her employer’s permission — to carry a handgun “within the confines of the business establishment.” Md. Code Ann., Crim. Law § 4-203(b)(7)(ii). The Court ultimately found that the “confines of the business establishment” did not extend to an open parking lot adjacent to an employer’s nightclub, regardless of whether the employer gave its head of security permission to carry a firearm on the premises. Three judges dissented, finding that the Court’s majority opinion interpreted the exception too narrowly. Rather, the dissent found that the exception would extend onto a privately held adjacent parking lot.

http://www.mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2013/87a12.pdf

Thanks for covering me. I just woke up and saw Cypher requesting the cite.

redeemed.man · Jun 2, 2015

Mark75H said:
If said parking lot is common to other businesses, that's why it could/would be different. Strip mall/shopping center vs single property.

A parking lot fully on a single property with a single business with a clear driveway/road between the parking lot and state/county/municpal road/street would probably be seen as same as the land your house is built on.

An auto dealership is a business that would appear to be okay for carry by a supervisory employee as long as the lot is solely owned or leased by that dealership. Maybe?

TheBert · Jun 2, 2015

CypherPunk said:
Employee vs resident

What is the difference between a plot of land I own and operate a business upon and a plot of land I own and live on? They are both my property.

CypherPunk · Jun 2, 2015

I think the differentiator is a good and substantial supervisory employee.

If you were to open or concealed carry on property you own, they could go pound sand

Biggfoot44 · Jun 3, 2015

Because the Statute says "Business Premesce" rather than "Business Property" .

Was debated in the GA back in '72 . The anti's didn't want any place of business exemption , the pro-2A side wanted any employee on business property. The Owner and designated Supervisory Employee upon "Premesce was the compromise reached.

Tomcat · Jun 3, 2015

Went through this premises thing many years ago. You could walk out the door into the parking lot with a beer or drink. (We own the property and the business)One night MSP stopped by and wrote tickets for everyone thy caught with a beer outside. Went to court with all of them and told the judge that the license was for the premises which included the parking lot. He said correct, however MD law trumps county law and MD law says no drinking in public.

5.56blaster · Jun 3, 2015

LEOSA Amen.

Questions about being co-owner of a business and on-property carry/CCW

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