ar 15 receiver questions

j_h_smith said:

That has been one of my major concerns about an 80% receiver. I am perfectly legal in building my AR, but a cop sees a firearm without a serial number. What do you think he's going to do? I bet it involves me having to retain a lawyer and some time before I see that AR and any other firearms I may have had with me.

How does one go about proving to a police agency that I made this AR and I am within my rights to have this firearm in my possession? Then, would it matter?

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this is exactly my concern.

Not to mention my uncle has an 80 that he had already milled out prior to 2013. How does he prove that the lower was completed before the october law change, and there for he can have whatever upper (that is not an SBR) he wants on top?

As much as I want to mill an 80% because the nerd part of me wants to learn that much more about my rifle, the concern of extra potential hassle by "the man" is significant

Sev said:

I'm getting conflicting answers on my two questions...

1. I know I can buy a stripped lower receiver in maryland. I also know I can build it in a pistol configuration, or in a heavy barrel configuration in compliance with the law. Can I build a stripped lower receiver, purchased after the law changed, with an 18" barrel in a contour that is not heavy barrel?

2. Can I make an 80% lower into a 16" heavy barrel rifle or pistol?

I made the mistake of ordering an 18" SPR upper (hell of a deal), but was planning on putting it on a new receiver when I buy it. I hope I'm not out of luck

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1. yes you can buy any lower you want and yes you can build that with an SPR upper,

the reality is that without a state definition of what an HBAR is, and the best guidance from the state police is that its good to go as long as its advertised as a heavy barrel, or stamped hbar its good to go and the most important thing, that state police are not heading to gun ranges to check receiver dates and start taking a set of calibers to barrels.

under state police guidance, a pencil barrel stamped "HBAR" is A-OK as long as the guy you buy it from states that its a heavy barrel. THERES NO DAMN SPEC!!! without a spec or definition, HBAR means nothing, without enforcement it means even less.

add in the fact that you can get away from the whole barrel profile issue if you decide to SBR your lower, getting all panicked over what an hbar is silly. hell, barrel profile doesn't not apply to piston uppers. outside of a dozen or so people here on MD shooters, nobody is really getting worked up over what is or is not a HBAR,

if your worried, get a piston kit for the upper and be done with it

2. same thing applies to 80% lowers,

Sev said:

back to my question about milling an 80:

do I have to register it with the msp or put a SN on it? I don't want to potentially catch flack if I finish an 80 into a pistol and (for example) get pulled over in a traffic stop.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is what are the requirements for how to finish an 80% receiver

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Federal law allows one (that can legally own and posses firearms) to build a weapon for one's self. Md law does not prevent that, but... if a lower receiver is finished and assembled into a completed firearm, it must comply with all state and federal laws.

You do not have to put a serial number on it, there is no registration requirement, state or federal, as long as it is compliant with laws and not an NFA configuration.

Many of us that have completed 80% lowers do, in fact, put a serial number of some sort on them. It's not a bad idea to have some means of identification, in the event that the weapon was ever lost or stolen.

Most of my lowers have serial numbers, all were completed by myself. I have a few away that are not engraved, holding those out for possible NFA weapons, where the engraving requirements are far more specific and detailed.

I have no issues with LE and an unserialized lower/weapon. I don't expect to be checked, as I don't break the law and if I were, there really should be no issues with an AR lower (or a 1911 frame, for that matter) that does not have a serial number on it, as they are commonly finished by individuals.

I did take pics of all of my lowers, most of them in a finished pistol configuration, sealed them up in an envelope and sent them registered/certified mail to myself. Those envelopes remain in my safe, unopened, should an issue ever arise as to how/where/when they were acquired. It also includes pics of the milling process as I did them and documented it along the way. I don't ever expect to need this, but it's cheap insurance in court if ever needed... lol

HBAR... I ain't touchin that.. there is no definition by the state, so be sure, at a minimum, that the bbl you are building with is either marked or advertised/described by the vendor as being an HBAR. One would think that the traditional 'definition' of the barrel profile specifics would be correct, but I have not seen this in writing anywhere as of yet (nor do I ever expect to, seeing how or legislative system operates in this state).

dontpanic said:

It is designated as "other". Any lower that has not been made into a long gun can be built into a pistol. It is just easier if it was originally transferred as other.

In order to purchase a stripped lower as a "pistol", it would have to be on the roster.

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'Other' on paper work? Ok. My lower says 'multi' . Sorry for confusion.

AR pistols are on the roster. Any exceptions?

outrider58 said:

'Other' on paper work? Ok. My lower says 'milti' . Sorry for confusion.

AR pistols are on the roster. Any exceptions?

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The particular model has to be on the roster. AR-15 pistol is not enough. It has to be Colt, or Engage or whatever. I know they are both on the roster already.

As always: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

j_h_smith said:

I believe this is the link that gave the information. The link is now dead.

http://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=835OWi-sH2U=&tabid=429&mid=1074

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Nope on that link...

http://web.archive.org/web/20130817...px?fileticket=835OWi-sH2U=&tabid=429&mid=1074

j_h_smith said:

Regardless of what you buy and how it is advertised, the Maryland law states that the barrel or lower receiver must have HBAR or Heavy Barrel inscribed on the barrel or lower receiver. That is the law. The manufacturers aren't making a barrel just for Maryland release, so they may say they are an HBAR configuration, but it must be inscribed as an HBAR or Heavy Barrel or it's an illegal configuration.

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No such law. Please cite where it specifically says it must be marked.

Not even MSP says they have to be marked.

They say they can be marked HBAR, advertized as HBAR, or can the FFL can articulate that they are HBAR.

j_h_smith said:

Regardless of what you buy and how it is advertised, the Maryland law states that the barrel or lower receiver must have HBAR or Heavy Barrel inscribed on the barrel or lower receiver. That is the law. The manufacturers aren't making a barrel just for Maryland release, so they may say they are an HBAR configuration, but it must be inscribed as an HBAR or Heavy Barrel or it's an illegal configuration.

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No where in the law or COMAR is it written that a firearm MUST be marked HBAR or Heavy Barrel.

Cite please for your information.

I seem to have lost the link for what I was quoting but Scott also affirms my contention.

http://www.scotts-gunsmithing.com/important-maryland-firearm-laws/

I trust Scott and his opinion.

dblas said:

No wear in the law or COMAR is it written that a firearm MUST be marked HBAR or Heavy Barrel.

Cite please for your information.

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Can you quote the law where it says the rifle has to be a heavy barrel?

Just curious what the actual law says

j_h_smith said:

I believe this is the link that gave the information. The link is now dead.

http://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=835OWi-sH2U=&tabid=429&mid=1074

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Ahh, That would have been a determination from MSP, not a law or COMAR regulation. There is a copy of that determination floating around here somewhere.

j_h_smith said:

I seem to have lost the link for what I was quoting but Scott also affirms my contention.

http://www.scotts-gunsmithing.com/important-maryland-firearm-laws/

I trust Scott and his opinion.

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Yep, please note what he has in red *** PER the M.S.P. an HBAR is defined as a AR15 that is MARKED BHAR on the Barrel or Receiver or is Marketed/Advertised by the Manufacturer as a HBAR Rifle.

Not per the law or per COMAR

Sev said:

Can you quote the law where it says the rifle has to be a heavy barrel?

Just curious what the actual law says

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In regards to what? Being cash and carry?

Public Safety Article 3-208(R)(2)(xv)

(R) “Regulated firearm” means:

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:

(xv) Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15
Sporter H–BAR rifle;

Link to Chapter 427 from 2013 (FSA 2013)

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/Chapters_noln/CH_427_sb0281e.pdf

You answer starts at the bottom of page 17, with the actual item listed on page 22.

stringer bell said:

1. yes you can buy any lower you want and yes you can build that with an SPR upper,

the reality is that without a state definition of what an HBAR is, and the best guidance from the state police is that its good to go as long as its advertised as a heavy barrel, or stamped hbar its good to go and the most important thing, that state police are not heading to gun ranges to check receiver dates and start taking a set of calibers to barrels.

under state police guidance, a pencil barrel stamped "HBAR" is A-OK as long as the guy you buy it from states that its a heavy barrel. THERES NO DAMN SPEC!!! without a spec or definition, HBAR means nothing, without enforcement it means even less.

add in the fact that you can get away from the whole barrel profile issue if you decide to SBR your lower, getting all panicked over what an hbar is silly. hell, barrel profile doesn't not apply to piston uppers. outside of a dozen or so people here on MD shooters, nobody is really getting worked up over what is or is not a HBAR,

if your worried, get a piston kit for the upper and be done with it

2. same thing applies to 80% lowers,

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And here the fun can begin, since there is no spec either at the federal or state level, what prevent a group from doing a group buy and having the groups initials stamped into the barrels (i.e. How to Build an AR) ?

The barrel is now stamped HBAR regardless of the profile?

Just spitballing......

dblas said:

And here the fun can begin, since there is no spec either at the federal or state level, what prevent a group from doing a group buy and having the groups initials stamped into the barrels (i.e. How to Build an AR) ?

The barrel is now stamped HBAR regardless of the profile?

Just spitballing......

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Careful! You can shoot yer eye out with one of those!
I think we covered this, more or less.