will the cetme sporter, or the ptr91 be banned?

erwos · Aug 9, 2013

ohen cepel said:
So, in the end do we have to wait for this moronic law to come into effect so that we can get determinations on what is/isn't legal? Seems to be reasonable arguements on boths sides here but in the end, isn't it down to the MSP's decision and how they feel that day?

Well, theoretically, you could simply ask them if X is regulated. That criteria isn't going to change after 10/1.

IMBLITZVT · Aug 12, 2013

erwos said:
The CETME isn't parts interchangeable, so it shouldn't be banned or regulated. *shrugs*

I think they are probably close enough that they are going to be banned. Same basic design. While all parts are not interchangeable, you can do groups of parts. Like trigger packs...etc. The rear sight is really the biggest difference. I am going to say they are probably going to get caught up under this law.

The idea that the CETME was first is not going to fly as these are not even real CETMEs for the most part. Yes there are some sporter CETME made guns in the country but for the part they are CAI made guns which are not CETMEs. Others are even built on PTR receivers... so I think this idea is not going to fly.

I would like to know when the MSP Tech Branch is being formed? With the ATF they have a branch that deals with these issues. SB281 is less clear than Federal Regulations... they are going to need one!

6-Pack · Aug 13, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
I think they are probably close enough that they are going to be banned. Same basic design. While all parts are not interchangeable, you can do groups of parts. Like trigger packs...etc. The rear sight is really the biggest difference. I am going to say they are probably going to get caught up under this law.

The idea that the CETME was first is not going to fly as these are not even real CETMEs for the most part. Yes there are some sporter CETME made guns in the country but for the part they are CAI made guns which are not CETMEs. Others are even built on PTR receivers... so I think this idea is not going to fly.

I would like to know when the MSP Tech Branch is being formed? With the ATF they have a branch that deals with these issues. SB281 is less clear than Federal Regulations... they are going to need one!

"Close enough" falls under the "copycat" section of the law. If it is not specifically named in the law (like the CETME) then it is a "copycat." All autoloading, center fire rifles come under this law as either 1) specifically named (and therefore banned) or 2) as a copycat (and not banned if it lacks enough dangerous features).

IMBLITZVT · Aug 13, 2013

6-Pack said:
"Close enough" falls under the "copycat" section of the law. If it is not specifically named in the law (like the CETME) then it is a "copycat." All autoloading, center fire rifles come under this law as either 1) specifically named (and therefore banned) or 2) as a copycat (and not banned if it lacks enough dangerous features).

No actually thats not correct.

What I am saying is that I think its close enough to a "copy" of the SA G3, SAR...etc. that it counts as a copy of a listed assault long gun. So it will be banned based on that.

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or 15 their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault 16 weapon:

xxxvii) Springfield Armory BM–59, SAR–48, G3, SAR–3, 4 M–21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand;

You say its a "copycat" but it is clearly not or can easily made not to be! Either way your "close enough" argument does not mean its a copy cat.

(2) “COPYCAT WEAPON” DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR AN ASSAULT PISTOL.

(E) (1) “COPYCAT WEAPON” MEANS:
(I) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT CAN 1 ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING:
1.A FOLDING STOCK;
2. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER;
3. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR;
(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS A 11 FIXED MAGAZINE WITH THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS; 12
(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN 13 OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 30 29 INCHES;

So first being a copy of a listed assault long gun means its not a copycat. If you don't believe the CETME is a copy of the SA G3, then this does not apply. However then the second part comes in. It does not have a folding stock. It does not have a Grenade Launcher unless you care considering the rings in front of the front sight. If so they can be easily removed. It does have a flash hider but again, thats very easy to remove or replace with a fake FH or a MB. So its not a copy cat or at least can be very easily made not to be.

dreadpirate · Aug 31, 2013

At least the AR10 is not banned.

Wynter · Aug 11, 2014

So its the PTR 91 banned, or available for purchase in MD?

DaemonAssassin · Aug 11, 2014

Wynter said:
So its the PTR 91 banned, or available for purchase in MD?

The PTR-91 and all of its copies/clones are banned.

Pinecone · Aug 11, 2014

6-Pack said:
"Close enough" falls under the "copycat" section of the law. If it is not specifically named in the law (like the CETME) then it is a "copycat." All autoloading, center fire rifles come under this law as either 1) specifically named (and therefore banned) or 2) as a copycat (and not banned if it lacks enough dangerous features).

Under the law, the term "copy cat" has a SPECIFIC meaning, and that is NOT as you are using it.

(E) (1) “COPYCAT WEAPON” MEANS:
(I) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT CAN 1 ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A FOLDING STOCK;
2. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER; OR
3. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR;
(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS A 11 FIXED MAGAZINE WITH THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS; 12
(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN 13 OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 30 29 INCHES;

You are talking about are COPIES or IMITATIONS.

And the AG has published a ruling about what constitutes a COPY or IMITATION.

Firearms Bulletin #10-1 (emphasis added)

An individual will be required to comply with Maryland Regulations for a firearm that is:
1)a reproduction or imitation of a firearm that is cosmetically similar to a specifically enumerated assault weapon as defined in Public Safety Title 5, subtitle 1, section 101(P)(2) and;
2)has completely interchangeable internal components necessary for the full operation and function of any one of the specifically enumerated assault weapons as defined in Public Safety Title 5, subtitle 1, section101(P)(2)."

It is not enough that they look the same or even function the same, they have to have COMPLETELY INTERCHANGEABLE internal parts.

If the CETME has different FCG parts, that will not fit in an H&K, it is not a copy or imitation. If the parts will swap between the rifles, then it IS a copy.

I would even read that you would have to be able to swap any part from one to the other and they both still function. So not just the entire FCG, but say just the hammer or sear or disconnector.

whitelightning777 · Aug 11, 2014

bm59 banned

erwos said:
The CETME isn't parts interchangeable, so it shouldn't be banned or regulated. *shrugs*

Speaking of which, this also shouldn't be banned:
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/

Not an M1A, and not parts interchangeable as far as I can tell.

You can also bypass the HK93 ban by using a BMP93AR receiver that takes AR magazines. Not technically correct, but a hell of a lot better than trying to find HK93 mags.

Look at the Springfield armory section of the ban list for SB281. The BM59 is banned by name.

erwos · Aug 12, 2014

whitelightning777 said:
Look at the Springfield armory section of the ban list for SB281. The BM59 is banned by name.

The Shuff's gun doesn't take BM59 magazines, and therefore is not parts interchangeable. The MSP has been consistent when asked about this particular gun - it's fine.

will the cetme sporter, or the ptr91 be banned?

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