Armi San Paolo 1851 Navy .44 Cal

newq · Oct 25, 2014

I made a trade today and I am not really sure how I fared but I managed to pickup an unfired Armi San Paolo .44 Cal Navy Yank Model. The pistol appears to be in mint condition with no handling marks or signs of use. I was originally looking to pickup a more modern pistol in a trade deal but settled here for a black powder instead of the more modern semi-auto I was looking for. I am not really sure if I made out ok or not.

Through brief reading I think I may have stumbled onto more than the black powder revolver than I thought I was getting. From what little I have been able to read these pistols have become somewhat collectible as they are no longer made anymore. Is there real value in these or should I follow my real intent of making this a range toy?

Does anybody know anything about these? Is it collectible or should I just fire away?

Threeband · Oct 26, 2014

I think you should just shoot it.

It's actually a cross between an 1860 Army (rebated frame and cylinder) with an 1851 style loading lever and octagonal barrel. It looks like it has the longer 1860 grip, too.

"Army" means .44 caliber, and "Navy" means .36, in the usage of the day.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2901812&postcount=39

newq · Oct 26, 2014

Threeband said:
I think you should just shoot it.

It's actually a cross between an 1860 Army (rebated frame and cylinder) with an 1851 style loading lever and octagonal barrel. It looks like it has the longer 1860 grip, too.

"Army" means .44 caliber, and "Navy" means .36, in the usage of the day.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2901812&postcount=39

Thanks for the reply threeband. I am entirely new to BP firearms. What would you suggest to look for as far as what percussion caps to buy (size and brand) what ammo to buy and batches powder dispenser/measurers or if this has been covered ad nauseum please forgive me. I have seen alot of info out there, much of it does not pertain to this specific arm. Please if you could be so kind point me in the right direction. I don't want to blow this or myself up and having no one I know firing cap and ball pistol I don't want to do it incorrectly.

Thanks for your time and replies.

ken792 · Oct 26, 2014

It should take #10 caps, though #11's can usually be pinched to fit. Use real black powder if you can get your hands on it. Otherwise, you can use any blackpowder substitute. For slugs, go with pure lead, 0.451-0.457, ideally something large enough that it will shave off a ring of lead when you ram it in. Avoid petroleum based lubricants. They tend to gum up with black powder fouling. Instead, use something natural like Crisco. Slather the insides with it and it will keep the fouling soft inside the gun. Dab some in the chamber over each slug too. That will reduce leading and keep powder fouling soft. Without the grease, the fouling can get thick enough for the gun to jam after a few cylinders. Clean with soap and water.

Threeband · Oct 26, 2014

Knock the wedge loose, but don't remove it (don't take that screw out that holds the wedge!) The barrel should pull off; you might have to press the rammer against the cylinder between chambers to loosen the barrel, and be sure the wedge is completely loosened.

There are big deep grooves on the cylinder arbor. Slather them with grease. I used wheel bearing grease.

Using black powder, you cannot fit enough in there to blow up the gun. Use as much as will fit. When you use too much, you'll need to whittle the lead ball down so the cylinder will turn.

Read through that thread I linked to. There's stuff about measuring powder, and I think a link to some of my loading stand stuff. Do "advanced search: loading stand/Threeband and wheel bearing grease/Threeband."

Don't shoot your eye out.

newq · Oct 26, 2014

Wow thanks guys for the education. I really do appreciate it.

epps1919 · Oct 26, 2014

A true Navy gun is 36 cal not 44. the Army had .44 cal guns, that's the only difference from Army to Navy pistols.

noahhh · Nov 11, 2014

Sure, it'll withstand the pressure of shooting as much blackpowder as you can cram under a projectile. But, and it's a big But, shooting it a lot with loads like that will certainly loosen up the gun with time, especially since it's a .44 on a .36 frame. Keep the loads low/sane and it'll last forever. I shoot 20gr. fffg, a round ball, and Crisco over the ball for lube and to lessen the chance for a chain fire. Always, always be sure to seat whatever projectile you use firmly on top of the powder charge. As for caps, I've done the pinched #11 trick but much prefer the proper #10- they stay on better and also lessen the chance for a chain fire (flames jumping from chamber to chamber setting off more than one at a time). A tight cap goes a long way toward preventing that mishap. Pretty exciting if it ever happens to you!

Besides, the ball only needs enough energy to propel it to the target, unless of course you are shooting bears or German Panzers.

newq · Nov 11, 2014

HAHA! No just looking to shoot it. To be honest, I shoot at hap baker. Quite a few times as I am there with my son a Curly haired guy has come in with a cap and ball revolver and he only shoots a cap and ball revolver for a couple hours and then goes home. Has a grease gun for cover the balls etc and a stand for loading the gun etc. He appears to know what he doing. I watched him abit last time I was there because I was interested but tried to be inconspicuous just because you never know how what some people think if you begin staring at them for any reason.

It looked neat and involved and messy

but just the same I was intrigued. I am in love with pistol shooting period. This will be sure to be a real blast as well.

Blacksmith101 · Nov 12, 2014

Next time you see him at the range approach him and introduce yourself. Tell him you are interested in BP revolvers and he will most likely be happy to explain everything, something in BP smoke make most of us welcome new people to the insanity.

newq · Nov 13, 2014

I will surely do so. Kinda funny note but as he was shooting his cap n ball pistol I was watching his lane, and his groups were better than me with my glock. Kinda the type of moment where you pull your hand down your face to pull some egg off as this man with his century old technology is putting you to shame with your modern tools.

Not that we were competing, more that I was impressed with his ability. You could tell he was proficient with his CNB revolver and that whatever he would need it for, there would not be a problem.

jimbobborg · Nov 15, 2014

I have the Pietta version of this pistol. I use Bore Butter for lube and protection on it, and clean it with water and Ballistol. I load using a powder flask with either Goex or 777 FFFg powder. It is easier and faster to load the cylinder with the cylinder out of the gun versus in it. Bring a wood or leather mallet with you. Take the cylinder out, fill the holes with powder, cover said holes with one ball, use the mallet to get the ball in until flush. Put the cylinder back into the gun. Use the rammer to push the balls in until they compress the powder, this should be a full stroke of the rammer. Fill the openings with Bore Butter. Cap the nipples, and fire away. If you try to fill the cylinder holes with powder while still in the gun, you'll end up spilling powder while pouring. Just some advise from someone who has done this before.

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