Texas DPS Ditches S&W M&P over Reliability Issues

Baccusboy · Apr 20, 2014

Interesting read:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...andguns-reliability-issues-returns-sig-sauer/

...we have been experiencing malfunctions during Recruit School firearms training, which is unacceptable, and I have suspended the transition to the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm.

Even if the manufacturer is able to address our issues over the next week, we cannot afford to risk the extra training time that was added to address transition contingincies.

FrankOceanXray · Apr 20, 2014

I know there has been a lot of tweaking and redoing with S&W M&Ps.we are to get new guns issued to us already....mine is no more than three years old.

I'd like to know the faults Texas is experiencing.

BradMacc82 · Apr 20, 2014

Not an interesting read to me. There's almost no info.

Article makes no mention of what supposed issue Texas DPS is having with the 9mm M&P's to warrant going back to the Sig's.

I have one of the first runs of the M&P .45's (4" full-frame) and aside from me wearing out the recoil spring assembly (currently around the 7500 round mark), it's been stone-cold reliable.

Would love to have more info.

drking2 · Apr 20, 2014

This has more info, sounds like they were concerned about movement in the action and concerns for long term use.

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/17/dps-suspends-use-new-handgun-over-concerns/

BradMacc82 · Apr 20, 2014

drking2 said:
This has more info, sounds like they were concerned about movement in the action and concerns for long term use.

http://www.mdshooters.com/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=20461

Why a FS ad for a kayak???

Wayne1one · Apr 20, 2014

Say it could be ammo related, etc... Who knows, limp wristing from the recruits? Either way if S&W could fix the issues within the "next week" it can't be that big of a deal....

drking2 · Apr 20, 2014

Sorry, first time using a mac, my cut and paste are sorta off:

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/17/dps-suspends-use-new-handgun-over-concerns/

Name Taken · Apr 20, 2014

I can find articles where departments have stopped using Glocks, Sigs, SW's, Remington etc.

There are a ton of variables and does not condemn the firearm. Ammo, training tactics, COST, lube, maintenance etc. all play a part.

TxAggie · Apr 21, 2014

Name Taken said:
I can find articles where departments have stopped using Glocks, Sigs, SW's, Remington etc.

There are a ton of variables and does not condemn the firearm. Ammo, training tactics, COST, lube, maintenance etc. all play a part.

Not to mention, just one or two instructors who are biased against a transition can easily throw a wrench into the works.

drking2 · Apr 21, 2014

TxAggie said:
Not to mention, just one or two instructors who are biased against a transition can easily throw a wrench into the works.

Yep, and the movement was so small I'm not sure how significant that would be. Maybe just normal breaking in. Sounds like they are still going to change, just want to make sure what the movement is so went back to the 226 for this class

Mr H · Apr 21, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
Not an interesting read to me. There's almost no info.

Article makes no mention of what supposed issue Texas DPS is having with the 9mm M&P's to warrant going back to the Sig's.

I have one of the first runs of the M&P .45's (4" full-frame) and aside from me wearing out the recoil spring assembly (currently around the 7500 round mark), it's been stone-cold reliable.

Would love to have more info.

I am interested in hearing what issues there are as well.

I have an early M&P40, and have had zero issues with it in probably 2000 rounds

CrawfishStu · Apr 21, 2014

I would say that mine are some of the most reliable handguns I own. My 9L for competition use will finally start having extracting issues if you don't clean behind the extractor in over 1k rounds. I'm not a fan of having to drift out the rear sight to get to the plunger etc. I'd like to get in there easier and clean it. My CORE has that neat bolt off cover.

traveller · Apr 21, 2014

TxAggie said:
Not to mention, just one or two instructors who are biased against a transition can easily throw a wrench into the works.

I imagine some resistance in TX to going back to 9mm from .357 Sig.

platoonDaddy · Apr 21, 2014

drking2 said:
Sorry, first time using a mac, my cut and paste are sorta off:

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/17/dps-suspends-use-new-handgun-over-concerns/

How in the hell do you measure microns?

The agency decided to halt the use of the new handguns after a couple of the weapons experienced slight movement of less than 10 microns after repeated firing of about 3,000 rounds, Vinger said. A micron is one-millionth of a meter. Movement in a gun could affect accuracy. There were also bullet “feeding and ejection” issues. None of the performance issues resulted in any injuries. And so far, DPS has not been able to replicate these issues in subsequent testing, Vinger said.

Magnumite · Apr 21, 2014

A millimeter (.001 meter) is equal to .0391". One thousandth of a millimeter (a micron) would be .0000391". Ten times that is .000391" or 1/3 of .001". It is possible to get a dial indicator which measures to .0005". I imagine some are more precise, therefore pricey. Interpolating the equivalent of 10 microns is doable. But the resultant accuracy deviation at 25 yards would only be .050". Go figure.

Temperature controlled environment, magnification come to mind. I think someone got their units mixed up or were grasping at straws.

Minuteman · Apr 21, 2014

News to me. I find no issues with the M&P's I've shot.

I'd put them right up there among the best in my experience. The M&P is a tremendous improvement over any semiauto S&W has produced before. I'll need to see some data before throwing them under the bus.

Respen33 · Apr 21, 2014

Funny thing is most consumers love their S&W m&p but law enforcement seem to have issues. I wanted to point out that S&W sells a different version of the consumer to law enforcement. They have slight tweaks. They are built to higher tolerances for reliability but it mean you have to clean and properly treat your pistol more.

Think AK47 vs m16 when you shove it in sand with a locked bolt.

oldsarge · Apr 22, 2014

This sounds to me like some of the instructors did not like the switch over and systematically went about exaggerating the problems they were having with the M&Ps. "Microns" :sad20:

rbird7282 · Apr 22, 2014

Howard county had FN, Glock, and the M&P tested when they were looking for replacements for their Sigs. The M&P broke during the testing. They chose the Glock. Their Sigs were having too many issues,
So they switched.
For the record I have an M&P and never had any kind of failure. Rock solid.

Traveler · Apr 22, 2014

Texas DPS Ditches S&W M&P over Reliability Issues

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