Rust issue with a pistol barrel

Hello, I need some input because this is driving me nuts. I feel like a newb for having to make a thread about this, but it has me a bit stumped.

I am very strict about cleaning my firearms and storing them to prevent rust. I collect C&R firearms and have never had so much as a speck of rust develop on any of my firearms.

Having said that, I did some shooting and had a back injury that put me out of commission shortly after. I had shot about 5 pistols one day, and they each sat for about a month before I was feeling better and thought of cleaning them.

I store my firearms in a safe with large amounts of desiccant, and store each gun in a silicone treated gun sock. I even have a digital humidity monitor in my "gun room" and it is definitely not a humid place by any means. I know there have been other times I have shot and not cleaned the gun immediately after, but this has never happened.

These 5 guns in question were freshly cleaned and oiled before they were shot on this particular day.

3 out of the five were just fine. These three were a FEG .32 ACP pistol, and two surplus Tokarev pistols. No rust on them, they were stored in the same place, in the same type of silicone treated sock.

Two of the pistols had rusty barrels that looked like I had somehow sprayed corrosive material in them before I put them away for that month. It was not deep rust, but it did leave a tiny amount of pitting after I removed it. The coverage was near 100% with rust in the barrel AND chamber. There was no rust anywhere else, not on the feed ramps, not on the muzzle, not on the muzzle area of the slides, and not on the breech face or firing pins.

...Just an almost perfect coating of rust in the chambers and bores.

One pistol was my every day carry gun, a SAR B6P9C (basically a poly CZ75 clone if you aren't familiar)

The other is a FEG copy of the Browning Hi Power (PJK9HP I believe it the official name)

The FEG I bought used and the barrel had some wear, but was still shiny and no pitting.

The B6P had one of the most beautiful pistol barrels I've seen. The gun is about 2 years old and has about 300 rounds through it. The thing was mirror bright, I have always been quite impressed with how nicely that barrel was made. It's not as pretty anymore, unfortunately.

So, I went to cleaning them both. I went at it like crazy with a bronze bore brush and some BreakFree CLP on the SAR B6P and the FEG Hi Power. I would work it with the brush, dry it out, inspect, and keep going until my dry patches came out clean and the bores looked real nice.

The FEG was a little worse, so I actually chucked a bronze brush in my drill and gave it some high speed cleaning, reversing the drill to get it in both directions.

I ended the cleaning session with a normal light coat of M Pro 7 gun oil.

This was about 8 days ago. Today I got the FEG Hi Power out and took it shooting. It had no rust, looks great. When I got home, I checked out my SAR B6P and it had more rust in it. Not anything like the first time, but enough to worry me.

I am guessing I didn't get 100% of the rust removed from the SAR, and that is why it rusted again and the FEG did not (remember I used the drill on the FEG)

First off, I don't really understand why they rusted so bad in the first place. The one difference between the 3 guns I shot that day that did NOT rust and the 2 that DID rust, was that I shot about 10 rounds of Tula steel cased 9mm in each of the 2 that rusted. I shot FMJ reloads in the 3 that did not.

I have done some reading on similar rust stories, and saw some people speculate that the bi-metal jacket on the Tula could have left some steel particles on the barrel which easily rusted. What about the chambers being perfectly coated in rust, would the steel cases do the same to the chamber? I just don't understand how complete the rusting was, it would seem like there would be areas of rust and not a total coverage.


This is just weird to me.... I have definitely learned a lesson here about cleaning after I shoot, and keeping a closer eye on all my guns (You better believe I took ALL my many guns out and checked every single inch of them when this happened, not a speck of rust on any of my other pistols or rifles)

For the future, I have heard great things about Eezox and I am going to give it a try. I just cleaned the rust out of the B6P barrel, used Naval Jelly on it, then washed it out with hot water. I am treating it with Eezox now. I will check everything daily.


Again, I feel really stupid for having to ask about this, usually the issue of rust should be pretty cut and dry, maybe it is and I am missing something...

I would appreciate any advice or insight as to what might have happened in the first place, and whether you think I just didn't get all the rust on the B6P the first time.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks for any comments.

-Ian

Unfortunately many cleaner and lubricants are not designed as barriers. While humidity does accelerate rust parts can rust just in the presences of oxygen. I would suggest cleaning them real well and applying something like birchwood casey barricade.

I'm a firm believer in Eezox. I used it on all my guns prior to going overseas for a couple years and never had a problem.

Clandestine has a great sticky about cleaning products regarding corrosive ammo.

I know that Tula is not supposed to be corrosive but I have read stories on people who shot ammo labeled non corrosive only to find out differently several months down the line.

If you will be shooting Tula on a regular basis, read Clandestines information.

I think it's under Scotts Gunsmithing in the IP section.

newq said:

Unfortunately many cleaner and lubricants are not designed as barriers. While humidity does accelerate rust parts can rust just in the presences of oxygen. I would suggest cleaning them real well and applying something like birchwood casey barricade.

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Thank you. You're right, that M Pro 7 may just be a poor protectant, combined with the month of sitting dirty... . I like the M Pro 7 cleaner for powder residue and I thought I would give the oil a try.

I think I'll give the oil away, I am always trying different products and I think this one failed the test

inkd said:

I'm a firm believer in Eezox. I used it on all my guns prior to going overseas for a couple years and never had a problem.

Clandestine has a great sticky about cleaning products regarding corrosive ammo.

I know that Tula is not supposed to be corrosive but I have read stories on people who shot ammo labeled non corrosive only to find out differently several months down the line.

If you will be shooting Tula on a regular basis, read Clandestines information.

I think it's under Scotts Gunsmithing in the IP section.

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You are right and I have been using his ballistol "milk" method to clean up after corrosive shooting ever since I read that article a few months ago. It's a very good guide and I will start doing that after I shoot steel cased stuff from now on.

I cleaned with and applied Eezox to several of my pistols last night and will keep an eye on how they do. Seems like Clandestine said he loves it as a cleaner and barrier, but that you still need to use a good lubricant in addition (I believe Eezox claims that it is a lubricant but it seems like Clandestine doesn't think it does that job very well)


I wouldn't think "pistol range" accuracy would be hindered much by this small amount of rust, what do you guys think? I haven't actually tried them on paper since this happened... I don't expect much difference. I hope that's true!

The best rust preventatives I know of are Eezox and Ballistol, with Eezox being best.

Importantly:

Eezox contains trichloroethylene (trichlor). Trichlor is Group 2A carcinogen.

Ballistol is mostly medicinal-grade mineral oil and theoretically can be consumed without serious effect. MSDS: http://www.tdeinc.com/wp-content/up...llistol-Multipurpose-Lubricant-MSDS-Sheet.pdf

The way I see it there are only a few narrow possibilities:

Did you by any chance use tetra gun grease on the inside of you barrels as a preservative before storage? Some products that are sold as rust inhibitors and lubricants, as well as a few bore treatments that micro bond to the bore, can cause rusting issues. It must be something that was exposed to the bore and chamber exclusively. Possibly something in the propellant, but not the projectile since it never would contact the chamber area, and even if it did bi-metal jackets do a reasonably good job, unless the bore is tight or they are oversize, of segregating the steel of the jacket from the bore with the copper coating.

It's just science, without water or high humidity steel will not rust without the presence of a secondary corrosion motivator.

The crap thing is this- red rust is it's self a cause of rust, so unless you get ALL of it out of there, it will spread like a cancer.

This is the very reason I am extremely careful about putting things on my guns until I have tested them thoroughly.

There is also the chance that there was some water that got into the silicone bags and was sealed in from being absorbed by the dessicants in your storage area. If a good CLP was applied to the gun before firing, one of the only places it would be removed enough to allow corossion a foothold would be where it was mechanically removed by the round and projectile interacting with the bore and chamber.

For what it's worth, EEZOX is great as a preservative, just not as a lubricant. Milcomm is hands down the best preservative I have ever used. The formulation was put together for use on naval vessels in use in machine guns and gatling guns, so it stays where you put it and resists all corrosion. They formulate the PTFE specially in very small spherical units so as to allow it to bond to the pores of the metal, leaving the surface like robar or NiB after it's been conditioned.

That is a good idea on the brass brush in a chuck, my mosin bores will thank you. I've chucked just the brush without the rod to polish a chamber before, then finished with flitz or jewelers rouge, but never thought of treating the whole bore.

oh, and ballistol is indeed an EXCELLENT corrosion inhibitor and cleaner. People think it's not the greatest since they will clean something with it, rub all the crap off and then think that just because they used it to clean with it will protect the metal it touched.

This actually IS the case if you use ballistol enough to condition the metal with it, which for the most part means using the stuff and shooting enough for the metal to get hot, the ballistol migrates into the pores of the metal, then the pores contract, leaving the ballistol trapped and exluding moisture and relieving friction in the bargain.

However, if you clean with ballistol and then vigorously scrub all of the muck impregnated ballistol off, it is not going to protect as well as if you leave a very thin layer on metal being stored. Eezox and Milcomm both are better protectants, and milcomm may be a slightly better lubricant, but ballistol cleans where neither of the other two do, nor do they dissolve copper fouling and creep between lead and your bore so you can push it out with a patch, and hey, you can disinfect your cuts with it and drink the stuff as a laxative- no joke although they do not encourage that last.

amoebicmagician said:

However, if you clean with ballistol and then vigorously scrub all of the muck impregnated ballistol off, it is not going to protect as well as if you leave a very thin layer on metal being stored.

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The whole point is to 1) apply to clean, 2) wipe off, 3) repeat 1 and 2 until satisfied, 4) apply thin coat before putting gun into storage.

I agree whole heartedly, I just kept having friends say

"That ballistol you gave me in an afrin bottle to try out rusted up my damn gun! I cleaned my pistol with it, buffed the crap out of it, and then when I went deep sea fishing the damn thing got rust on it- you said it was magic!"

But yeah, a mildly impregnated patch down the bore before storage and you're gravy

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to realize that if you rub off all the protectant it's not going to do much protecting

So the guns with corrosion issues you didn't use the ballistol mix right? If that's the case its possible the tula was corrosive in some manner. Its not the first time I have seen Imported ammo have corrosive properties.

toolness1 said:

You are right and I have been using his ballistol "milk" method to clean up after corrosive shooting ever since I read that article a few months ago. It's a very good guide and I will start doing that after I shoot steel cased stuff from now on.

I cleaned with and applied Eezox to several of my pistols last night and will keep an eye on how they do. Seems like Clandestine said he loves it as a cleaner and barrier, but that you still need to use a good lubricant in addition (I believe Eezox claims that it is a lubricant but it seems like Clandestine doesn't think it does that job very well)


I wouldn't think "pistol range" accuracy would be hindered much by this small amount of rust, what do you guys think? I haven't actually tried them on paper since this happened... I don't expect much difference. I hope that's true!

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I've never tried Eezox as a cleaner since I have a ton of Hoppes laying around for the pistol and I went with Wipe Out exclusively on all my rifles years ago.

Ballistol is also my main wipe down before putting it in the safe spray. It's all I use. It neutralizes fingerprint oils excellent. I have hands like acid, I can watch a Kart barrel rust after I handle it!!!!

It sucks but I keep an old white cotton T-shirt on my safe with a can of Ballistol and I lay the pistol on the t-shirt and spray it all over, give it a light wipe and put it in the safe while holding it with the t-shirt.

I do the same with my long guns and I've never had a problem.

I wouldn't think accuracy would suffer at the distances you will be shooting your pistol from. I would be more concerned with breaking it down as far as you can and checking out springs and internal components to check for corrosion.

wow, thanks for all the great info guys. I will be applying your suggestions to my future gun care.

I have had great luck using brushes chucked in drills for riding up some REAL nasty bores. I got a couple gunsmith special M57 Tokarevs once that had two of the ugliest rusted/pitted bores I've ever seen. I found some bronze brushes made for reaming heat exchanger tubes, they come in different sizes. Anyways, I've been able to make some really ugly bores shine again after them still being dark and nasty after countless passes of a normal brush/rod/cleaning chemicals. I did the same with some nasty mosins that were still giving me dark patches after several hour long treatments with Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner plus vigorous regular brush/rod cleaning.

And speaking of the Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner....I have another theory for my rust.

I am wondering if I might have cleaned those barrels and not gotten 100% of the wipe-out out of the bore and chamber before I applied my CLP. I would think that could cause a nasty case of rust?

Also, like Clandestine said, its possible the Tula was in fact corrosive...

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clandestine said:

So the guns with corrosion issues you didn't use the ballistol mix right? If that's the case its possible the tula was corrosive in some manner. Its not the first time I have seen Imported ammo have corrosive properties.

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Correct, until now I've only been using the ballistol mix after shooting spam can surplus 54r in my Mosins and corrosive Romanian 8mm in my K98.


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Let me clarify that the initial rust incident happened after said shooting session with a few rounds of Tula, and that the guns had previously been cleaned with Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner, then put away with a thin coat of BreakFree CLP. Unfortunately I didn't inspect the barrels under good lighting before I shot them that day (I do always peek down the bores before I shoot, but just to check for obstructions). So, they might have actually been rusted before I even shot them. I don't think that is the case, but it did pop into my mind as a possibility..

The second incident of rust, on the SAR barrel, happened after cleaning with CLP and a bronze brush, then stored with a thin layer of the M Pro 7 oil...

Sorry, phone issues...

I think the ammo is at fault here. Something about it was not playing nice.

Clean those barrels with the wipe out then clean them with water and soap, then do it all over again.

Then use some eezox, breakfree, g96, or even wd40 on the bore. WD is awful for most gun applications but for preservation on the exterior and for a bore wipedown its pretty good at protection.

From here out I would treat these 2 pistols as if they were shot with corrosive ammo to prevent further corrosion.

clandestine said:

I think the ammo is at fault here. Something about it was not playing nice.

Clean those barrels with the wipe out then clean them with water and soap, then do it all over again.

Then use some eezox, breakfree, g96, or even wd40 on the bore. WD is awful for most gun applications but for preservation on the exterior and for a bore wipedown its pretty good at protection.

From here out I would treat these 2 pistols as if they were shot with corrosive ammo to prevent further corrosion.

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Sounds like good advice, thanks

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Sounds like ammo to me also. Corrosive ammo leaves salts as a combustion byproduct. That is reason for the soap and water cleaning mix first. I was taught that many years ago by my father the first time I was taught to clean a firearm.


"I wouldn't think "pistol range" accuracy would be hindered much by this small amount of rust, what do you guys think? I haven't actually tried them on paper since this happened... I don't expect much difference. I hope that's true! "

The pistol may shoot very well. I bought a 1911 upper years back, from a military Colt built Argentine gun. The barrel was frosted through the entire length of its bore. It would consistently shoot 3" at 25 yards using ball ammo.

Just my 2 cents, but I have several MN 91/30s shoot spam can ammo all the time and live in a valley where it is very humid in the fall, spring and summer. I pour a bottle of water down the bore at the range before I even pack up. At home it's clean with ammonia and then with Ballistol, bronze brush etc. Final wipe down with completely dry patches and cloths. Final lube before storing guns in safe (with dehumidifier in it) is with Frog Lube. Love this stuff. Never had any rust issues and this was after guns sitting for 9 months in safe.