Training progression? Rant / Plea for help

Hello everyone. This is going to be a long post/rant, so I apologize in advance. I just wanted to voice some of my frustrations being a beginner with firearms. Hopefully, the information on this thread will help future newbies out there!

Being new to the world of firearms I'm getting a little overwhelmed/confused by the amount of training and different courses around. Searching the forums only served to confuse me more so I decided to start a thread on it. There is a lot of background info here so bear with me.

I've been shooting handguns on and off for a couple of years now, introduced to handguns by a friend who was a law enforcement officer at the time. He taught me the basics, but was always geared towards having some fun at the range; don't get me wrong, he made sure that I knew how to safely handle the weapon and safety was always #1 priority. My wife grew up around firearms, thanks to her father and was a competitive rifle shooter in high school, but has not been around them for a long time.

We recently decided to get firearms of our own and both feel a refresher is a must as well as learning new and more advanced skills. Our main initial purpose to owning a firearm is home defense, but we are also looking at it as a hobby that we can enjoy together. I recently purchased our first handgun and will be taking the NRA Basic Pistol Course this weekend. But one question keeps coming up that I haven't been able to answer... Where do I go from there?

I realize that going to the range and practicing is key, but I also know that there is much more to learn than shooting at paper and hitting the X. There has to be a middle ground between the home defense shooter that keeps a gun in the nightstand just in case and that's it, and the weapons expert that owns and instructs in every kind of weapon known to man. I know I'll probably fall somewhere in between but not sure how to get there.

I guess I could always just buy what I think I would like to shoot and go to a range and shoot to my heart's content, but that is not really my style. If I'm going to be doing something I want to do it the best I can and I think proper instruction is a big part of that, be it formal (certified instructor and/or classroom courses, etc.) or informal (very experienced friend/family, or mentoring, etc.). For example, I would love to go shoot an AR or AK, and if I really wanted to I bet I could go and buy one; but I've never handled or shot one before. I wouldn't dare go near either of those without someone there that is familiar with them.

Being that I don't have any family or friends (within reasonable distance) that are into firearms I've decided that, at least for now, the formal instruction path seems the right way to go for me.

I've been seeing tons of classes being offered (Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection outside the home, refuse to be a victim, home firearm safety, ccw, etc.) and am wondering if there is a "natural" progression to taking firearm training.

I also realize that it hugely depends on what our goal is, but as a newbie, that is part of what I'm trying to figure out and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only newb wondering this. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Specifically, for me and my wife, we are starting with handgus but would like to get into rifles and shotguns at some point. We've even been talking about doing some clay shooting for fun, but then again, where to begin?

Thanks for reading my rant! Let the flaming begin...

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all of you who contribute to this forum. There are a lot of you that are VERY knowledgeable and an amazing source of information and spending some of your time helping others in the community is commendable. You have already helped me, and a lot of other newbs, more than you know. THANK YOU!

Why not join a club like, say... Monumental Rifle and Pistol Club . That not only gives you full priveleges at the Associated Gun Clubs range, but gets your foot in the door for all kinds of informal and more-formal shooting of all kinds. You can shoot various competitions for the fun of it, get a feel for what interests you, and be surrounded by people who can steer you toward more training.

here's my thought on it.

get the proper training first.. start with nra basic handgun course. then go to a range that rents guns. check out few and see what feels the best for you and your wife. then go purchase the handgun. if money allows.. do the another nra course (inside the home defense class). after you get comfortable.. join idpa league (which will teach both of you to shoot from holster in different scenarios. after that.. its up to you.. you can continue w/ training or just practice at the range (if they allow you to).

my 2cents.

edit: shotguns. if you are close to pg county.. go to pg trap and skeet range behind goodard(sp?)space.. you can rent shotguns for fairly cheap and try the trap and skeet.. they do offer classes.. if you go there when its not busy.. even the person collecting the card can spend time w/ you and teach you the basics and concepts. they are great people to deal with.

This is a great post, thanks for making it. I've been thinking the same thing.
Is the basic pistol course worth taking if you've been shooting for years?

Threeband said:

Why not join a club like, say... Monumental Rifle and Pistol Club . That not only gives you full priveleges at the Associated Gun Clubs range, but gets your foot in the door for all kinds of informal and more-formal shooting of all kinds. You can shoot various competitions for the fun of it, get a feel for what interests you, and be surrounded by people who can steer you toward more training.

Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in!

We've thought about clubs and am not ruling that out. Monumental seems to be one of the favorites around the forum and I'm sure they are great and I've been seriously considering joining them. They are a bit of a hike from me (I'm located in the vicinity of Ft. Meade) but it might be worth it. What you describe is exactly what I'd be looking for in a club.

These are the issues I've found when researching gun clubs. These are my observations and please correct me if I'm wrong. Most seem to be very impersonal in that you just mail the application and a check and you are part of the club and that is as far as involvement goes. No or very few meets, no real training opportunities, just pay and shoot. It may work for some people, maybe even most people, but does not work for me. Again, just my perception and I may be completely misled on this.

lx1x said:

here's my thought on it.

get the proper training first.. start with nra basic handgun course. then go to a range that rents guns. check out few and see what feels the best for you and your wife. then go purchase the handgun. if money allows.. do the another nra course (inside the home defense class). after you get comfortable.. join idpa league (which will teach both of you to shoot from holster in different scenarios. after that.. its up to you.. you can continue w/ training or just practice at the range (if they allow you to).

my 2cents.

edit: shotguns. if you are close to pg county.. go to pg trap and skeet range behind goodard(sp?)space.. you can rent shotguns for fairly cheap and try the trap and skeet.. they do offer classes.. if you go there when its not busy.. even the person collecting the card can spend time w/ you and teach you the basics and concepts. they are great people to deal with.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input!

The wife and I have been to a couple of indoor ranges and shot a bunch of different handguns. We decided on one and bought it. This weekend I'll be doing the NRA Basic Pistol.

I guess your suggestion would be to take the Personal Protection Inside the Home next. Seems like a logical choice, I'll try to schedule that as soon as can.

I do live close to the PG trap and skeet range, I did not know they did rentals and instruction. I used to work at Goddard space flight center so I'm very familiar with the area. I'll have to check them out. Thanks!

Cromzor said:

This is a great post, thanks for making it. I've been thinking the same thing.
Is the basic pistol course worth taking if you've been shooting for years?

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I figured that I couldn't be alone on this boat! Glad it helps!

Cromzor said:

This is a great post, thanks for making it. I've been thinking the same thing.
Is the basic pistol course worth taking if you've been shooting for years?

Click to expand...

There just isn't one " the basic pistol course ".
IMHO, DO NOT just limit yourself to "NRA CERTIFIED" hobble de gook. Depending on what you want to do. There is a difference between " target shooting/marksmanship " and " self defense shooting ".
Any ol instructor can teach the basics of steadying an aim and making a bullseye on a paper target. For self defense, I would look for someone who works in the field and has passion for it.

BigW said:

These are the issues I've found when researching gun clubs. These are my observations and please correct me if I'm wrong. Most seem to be very impersonal in that you just mail the application and a check and you are part of the club and that is as far as involvement goes. No or very few meets, no real training opportunities, just pay and shoot. It may work for some people, maybe even most people, but does not work for me. Again, just my perception and I may be completely misled on this.

Click to expand...

It really depends on the club. Baltimore Rifle Club, for instance is a very "low involvement" club. I think they're mainly a vehicle for getting access to the AGC range.

Monumental allows you to be as active or inactive as you please. You don't have to attend monthly meetings, but they seem well attended. This past meeting I think there were 80 - 100 members there.

There's a lot of encouragement to try out different activities, like trap shooting, informal .22 rimfire fun shoots, more formal bullseye shooting with handguns or rifles, etc.

Unfortunately, the AGC doesn't have any action shooting, such as Steel or IDPA. You can find those at places like Monocacy, Thurmont, Anne Arundel F&G, etc.




Oh, one other training venue I can recommend: Appleseed.

It's an intensive weekend course in fundamental rifle marksmanship. Do a search here on "Appleseed", and google "Revolutionary War Veterans Association"




..

You make some valid points that alot of new gun owners face. You are not alone.

I firmly believe that professional training is your best route to learning not only gun safety, but a variety of skills. Now with that said, not everyone who hangs an instructor shingle knows what they are doing. You would think so, but trust me its not always the case. There's alot of great instructors out there, and some "strange rangers" too. You'll have to do your research and find someone who is experienced and knowledgeable in the type of training that you seek. Once you find someone, learn all that you can learn and never stop. Gun handling skills are perishable. This tool may save your life one day, if you know how to use it properly.

Blaster229 said:

There just isn't one " the basic pistol course ".
IMHO, DO NOT just limit yourself to "NRA CERTIFIED" hobble de gook. Depending on what you want to do. There is a difference between " target shooting/marksmanship " and " self defense shooting ".
Any ol instructor can teach the basics of steadying an aim and making a bullseye on a paper target. For self defense, I would look for someone who works in the field and has passion for it.

Click to expand...

Very, very well said!

I strongly suggest, after basic pistol, you try competition, (IDPA, USPSA, Action Pistol). Go and watch one, ask questions, get comfortable.

It will teach you safety and how to manipulate the gun. It's not even about competing, just trigger time. It's something my wife and I do every month

If you want to shoot an AR you're welcome to shoot mine.
Only caveats, factory ammo and an open mind.
Private message me if interested.

Blaster229 said:

There just isn't one " the basic pistol course ".
IMHO, DO NOT just limit yourself to "NRA CERTIFIED" hobble de gook. Depending on what you want to do. There is a difference between " target shooting/marksmanship " and " self defense shooting ".
Any ol instructor can teach the basics of steadying an aim and making a bullseye on a paper target. For self defense, I would look for someone who works in the field and has passion for it.

Click to expand...

Great point, I think that since my primary purpose for owning a firearm is self defense, I should look into a self defense type course next.

Threeband said:

It really depends on the club. Baltimore Rifle Club, for instance is a very "low involvement" club. I think they're mainly a vehicle for getting access to the AGC range.

Monumental allows you to be as active or inactive as you please. You don't have to attend monthly meetings, but they seem well attended. This past meeting I think there were 80 - 100 members there.

There's a lot of encouragement to try out different activities, like trap shooting, informal .22 rimfire fun shoots, more formal bullseye shooting with handguns or rifles, etc.

Unfortunately, the AGC doesn't have any action shooting, such as Steel or IDPA. You can find those at places like Monocacy, Thurmont, Anne Arundel F&G, etc.




Oh, one other training venue I can recommend: Appleseed.

It's an intensive weekend course in fundamental rifle marksmanship. Do a search here on "Appleseed", and google "Revolutionary War Veterans Association"




..

Click to expand...

Point taken. I'll check Monumental out for the future. Thanks!

ProShooter said:

You make some valid points that alot of new gun owners face. You are not alone.

I firmly believe that professional training is your best route to learning not only gun safety, but a variety of skills. Now with that said, not everyone who hangs an instructor shingle knows what they are doing. You would think so, but trust me its not always the case. There's alot of great instructors out there, and some "strange rangers" too. You'll have to do your research and find someone who is experienced and knowledgeable in the type of training that you seek. Once you find someone, learn all that you can learn and never stop. Gun handling skills are perishable. This tool may save your life one day, if you know how to use it properly.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input! You make a good point. After I get through my Basic course, I'll be putting in some range time to reinforce those skills and I'll begin searching for a good instructor when I think I'm ready for the next step.

300RUM said:

I strongly suggest, after basic pistol, you try competition, (IDPA, USPSA, Action Pistol). Go and watch one, ask questions, get comfortable.

It will teach you safety and how to manipulate the gun. It's not even about competing, just trigger time. It's something my wife and I do every month

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check competition out after the self defense course(s). Getting into competition would be a nice by-product and would keep me shooting and practicing and it would be a hobby to enjoy with the wife like you mentioned.

as noted above, give uspsa and idpa a try (read thru the Competitive Shooting threads to get more info). you will get lots of trigger time, great familiarity with your guns, while on the move, at both stationary and moving targets. and when the buzzer goes off, you will have an adrenaline rush that certainly won't fully mimic a HD situation, but will get you going.

mopar92 said:

If you want to shoot an AR you're welcome to shoot mine.
Only caveats, factory ammo and an open mind.
Private message me if interested.

Click to expand...

I may take you up on that offer, I'll PM you about it.

My own two cents . . .

The world of training is confusing. First, there are different training objectives. What a soldier needs is not what a law enforcement officer needs is not what an armed civilian interested in self defense needs. A lot of the debate on boards comes from people who were trained for a particular objective and think that their training is the gold standard for the universe. For example, law enforcement officers are trained to apply force very carefully and to escalate to deadly force as a last option because their ideal outcome is to take people into custody with no one getting hurt. Neither the soldier nor the civilian are primarily seeking to take people into custody. The soldier is often using force offensively, and usually with logistical support, while the civilian is using force exclusively defensively and typically alone.

Second, there are different teaching styles that were developed for particular reasons. For example, firearms teaching in the military comes from the need to have a standard and cost effective teaching method that can be grasped by the lowest common denominator; it is also embedded in other objectives such as building group cohesion. It's great for what it is designed for, but this doesn't mean it is great for teaching for civilian defense. There is nothing sadder than seeing a civilian turned off to firearms training by a trainer with a military background imitating a bullying drill sergeant.

I'd say that you should definitely avail yourself of formal training, with a critical eye to the assumptions of each trainer both in terms of objective and teaching methods. First, it prevents you from reinventing the wheel. Second, it allows you to pick and choose the things that work for you. Third, if you decide to go off standard script after having formal training, it is a deliberate choice after having been taught established ways of doing things. After a few courses you'll begin to understand the commonalities and differences in approaches -- and develop some of your own.

The biggest challenge for most of the tactical shooting community is finding places that allow appropriate practice (for example, moving and shooting) because of the density of land use and the increased legal liability. In the ideal world we would all like a nice piece of rural land to practice on. Failing that, there are a few ranges with tactical ranges. The Fort Meade Rifle and Pistol Club has access to the Fort Meade ranges including Range 9, a tactical range. There is also a big range in NOVA (I think in Winchester?) that has a tactical range.

I'd say that you should keep in mind that all skills need to be maintained as they are perishable -- and this is an investment in time and money. With your own objectives firmly in mind, prioritize. For example, there is a big emphasis on long range rifle (600 yards, 1000 yards) among some in the shooting community. Yet for most people this has no practical tactical applicability whatsoever. For a civilian interested in defense, you'd be more interested in close quarters. This means -- no scope for you, no driving to 600 yard ranges, don't really need hold overs and hold unders, etc.

Finally, I'd suggest that you think of your firearms skills as only one set of defensive skills in the continuum of force. Pistol fights turn into hand-to-hand fights pretty quickly. You will need other defensive skill sets, including deescalation and unarmed skills.

Very well put Cbreeze and very nice post!

For defensive purposes, marksmanship is NOT the most important thing you need to learn. You may not be able to get into a Weaver or Isosceles stance. Cbreeze mentioned deescalation and unarmed skills. Being able to draw quickly, learning to fire from different positions. Strong side and weak side. Weapon retention is also something that a lot of people neglect, but is as important as anything else you will learn. You can do a lot of this with a good airsoft gun. Some of our IP's offer such courses. I believe Mercop teaches some classes at Freestate. George is a great guy, and is passionate about teaching. I'm sure there are others.

Cbreeze said:

My own two cents . . .

Finally, I'd suggest that you think of your firearms skills as only one set of defensive skills in the continuum of force. Pistol fights turn into hand-to-hand fights pretty quickly. You will need other defensive skill sets, including deescalation and unarmed skills.

Click to expand...

Cbreeze, I totally agree with you. I never remember my Drill yelling when it came to teaching basic rifle marksmanship. But yes, there are guys that yell like drills on weapons ranges. Don't know why they do that. All it does is make the Soldier nervous and leads to other problems with their shooting.

BigW, I have been shooting rifles, pistols and shotguns for over 10 years and I can honestly say even to this day I am still learning different techniques and styles to improve my shooting. I have taken classes with world class shooters and I can tell you from years of experience regardless of the weapon I am shooting dry fire drills are worth their weight in gold. Won’t cost anything, after the initial purchase of the training pistols, weighted magazines etc. You can find all sorts of training aids that won’t cost much. The best part about dry fire is you can do it from the house. Practicing your basic mechanics from drawing the weapon, getting in position/stance, proper grip, identifying the target, muzzle control/awareness, trigger safety, reloads and performing immediate action for a malfunction is the best place to start. It will help build your confidence when it comes to handling your pistol and allows you to make mistakes in a controlled safe environment. This will pay off down the road when you step out on the range. You should get with an expert from your gun club or a training instructor to get some drills you can do if you want to do some dry fire drills.

Cbreeze said:

My own two cents . . .

The world of training is confusing. First, there are different training objectives. What a soldier needs is not what a law enforcement officer needs is not what an armed civilian interested in self defense needs. A lot of the debate on boards comes from people who were trained for a particular objective and think that their training is the gold standard for the universe. For example, law enforcement officers are trained to apply force very carefully and to escalate to deadly force as a last option because their ideal outcome is to take people into custody with no one getting hurt. Neither the soldier nor the civilian are primarily seeking to take people into custody. The soldier is often using force offensively, and usually with logistical support, while the civilian is using force exclusively defensively and typically alone.

Second, there are different teaching styles that were developed for particular reasons. For example, firearms teaching in the military comes from the need to have a standard and cost effective teaching method that can be grasped by the lowest common denominator; it is also embedded in other objectives such as building group cohesion. It's great for what it is designed for, but this doesn't mean it is great for teaching for civilian defense. There is nothing sadder than seeing a civilian turned off to firearms training by a trainer with a military background imitating a bullying drill sergeant.

I'd say that you should definitely avail yourself of formal training, with a critical eye to the assumptions of each trainer both in terms of objective and teaching methods. First, it prevents you from reinventing the wheel. Second, it allows you to pick and choose the things that work for you. Third, if you decide to go off standard script after having formal training, it is a deliberate choice after having been taught established ways of doing things. After a few courses you'll begin to understand the commonalities and differences in approaches -- and develop some of your own.

The biggest challenge for most of the tactical shooting community is finding places that allow appropriate practice (for example, moving and shooting) because of the density of land use and the increased legal liability. In the ideal world we would all like a nice piece of rural land to practice on. Failing that, there are a few ranges with tactical ranges. The Fort Meade Rifle and Pistol Club has access to the Fort Meade ranges including Range 9, a tactical range. There is also a big range in NOVA (I think in Winchester?) that has a tactical range.

I'd say that you should keep in mind that all skills need to be maintained as they are perishable -- and this is an investment in time and money. With your own objectives firmly in mind, prioritize. For example, there is a big emphasis on long range rifle (600 yards, 1000 yards) among some in the shooting community. Yet for most people this has no practical tactical applicability whatsoever. For a civilian interested in defense, you'd be more interested in close quarters. This means -- no scope for you, no driving to 600 yard ranges, don't really need hold overs and hold unders, etc.

Finally, I'd suggest that you think of your firearms skills as only one set of defensive skills in the continuum of force. Pistol fights turn into hand-to-hand fights pretty quickly. You will need other defensive skill sets, including deescalation and unarmed skills.

Click to expand...

Very insightful, many points I had not directly considered, thanks!

teratos said:

For defensive purposes, marksmanship is NOT the most important thing you need to learn. You may not be able to get into a Weaver or Isosceles stance. Cbreeze mentioned deescalation and unarmed skills. Being able to draw quickly, learning to fire from different positions. Strong side and weak side. Weapon retention is also something that a lot of people neglect, but is as important as anything else you will learn. You can do a lot of this with a good airsoft gun. Some of our IP's offer such courses. I believe Mercop teaches some classes at Freestate. George is a great guy, and is passionate about teaching. I'm sure there are others.

Click to expand...

Swoop said:

Cbreeze, I totally agree with you. I never remember my Drill yelling when it came to teaching basic rifle marksmanship. But yes, there are guys that yell like drills on weapons ranges. Don't know why they do that. All it does is make the Soldier nervous and leads to other problems with their shooting.

BigW, I have been shooting rifles, pistols and shotguns for over 10 years and I can honestly say even to this day I am still learning different techniques and styles to improve my shooting. I have taken classes with world class shooters and I can tell you from years of experience regardless of the weapon I am shooting dry fire drills are worth their weight in gold. Won’t cost anything, after the initial purchase of the training pistols, weighted magazines etc. You can find all sorts of training aids that won’t cost much. The best part about dry fire is you can do it from the house. Practicing your basic mechanics from drawing the weapon, getting in position/stance, proper grip, identifying the target, muzzle control/awareness, trigger safety, reloads and performing immediate action for a malfunction is the best place to start. It will help build your confidence when it comes to handling your pistol and allows you to make mistakes in a controlled safe environment. This will pay off down the road when you step out on the range. You should get with an expert from your gun club or a training instructor to get some drills you can do if you want to do some dry fire drills.

Click to expand...

I agree, we are always learning, no matter how much experience.There are basics that are the foundation to build new skills on and that is where beginners, IMHO, get stuck and confused on where to "go next". Your suggestions make a lot of sense, I will include them in my training plans and ongoing practice, thanks.