Shooting at On target - 14 Sep

zoostation said:

This has happened at least once in MD. At the old Bel Air Gun in Fallston I believe. Guy asked to see a gun and had brought his own round.

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That's a potential hazard anywhere a customer can handle a firearm. It isn't always a suicide attempt. Just after getting out of the Air Force I worked part time selling firearms on commission. We were cautioned to keep a very close eye on customers because another of our stores had a customer put a shell in a shotgun he was looking at and he blew a hole in ceiling. He then tried to sue the store for giving him a loaded weapon.

240 towles said:

would stopping rentals really stop it? One could ask to see the firearm, load a shell, and do the deed at any LGS. Or just jump off a building.

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There's no statistical evidence linking availability of guns with suicide.

I stopped going to On Target ten years ago after twice shooting there and never seeing a Range Safety person anywhere. Way too many bullet strikes everywhere but down range. That place is an incident waiting to happen. This is the third suicide I know of at On Target...there was one last year as I recall and the place was closed for 24 hours and reopened.

Spoke with a person at the AGC range last week and he related how he was robbed after being followed home from an outing at On Target. I don't know the date of that incident.

Won't shoot at any range where there is insufficient supervision. We won't stop suicides, but we can be and must be more vigilant than the staff at On Target.

Lew--Ranger63

I stopped going to On Target when I got scared in the parking lot.

I shoot at O T and seen the staff all worried about pushing brass down range but not really watching the customers. I have seen them walk right past guns behind the line but they have to get your brass pushed down range as fast as possible.......

I haven't been to on target in many years. Are you allowed to pre load magazines or do you have to wait until inside the range to do it?

I left at about 2:00 PM yesterday

When I first started reading this thread, I remembered there was a group of young people checking in as I left. The desk guy was having a hard time explaining all the rules to them.That's what I first thought of, but reading more, it might not have been that group involved. The only issues I have with OT are the low hanging target poles and the heat in the summer. I go there mostly in the winter. I was there yesterday due to the closures at the Barnes Range at AGC.

RoadDawg said:

Damn tards... They just have to phuk up things for other folks on their way out...

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At least he didn't take his family or co-workers with him.

boundlessdyad said:

I haven't been to on target in many years. Are you allowed to pre load magazines or do you have to wait until inside the range to do it?

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They don't allow loaded firearms outside the range area, but I'm not aware of any prohibition against having magazines pre-loaded as long as they are not in the firearm.

Just to follow up on the incident yesterday, the media this morning is still reporting it as an accidental shooting. How does a person accidentally shoot himself in the head with a revolver?

Reptile said:

Just to follow up on the incident yesterday, the media this morning is still reporting it as an accidental shooting. How does a person accidentally shoot himself in the head with a revolver?

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This way: Woman Accidentally Kills Herself With Smith and Wesson .500 at Shooting Range

November 8 2013

by Dan Cannon

http://gunssavelives.net/news/woman...-with-smith-and-wesson-500-at-shooting-range/

Jim12 said:

This way: Woman Accidentally Kills Herself With Smith and Wesson .500 at Shooting Range

November 8 2013

by Dan Cannon

http://gunssavelives.net/news/woman...-with-smith-and-wesson-500-at-shooting-range/

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I remember that incident. I wonder how long it will take to get to the bottom line on this one.

Reptile said:

They don't allow loaded firearms outside the range area, but I'm not aware of any prohibition against having magazines pre-loaded as long as they are not in the firearm.

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Last I was aware, they do not allow loaded mags. But then, they don't dig through your gear either... just check for 'clear'

I was also at OT until about 1:30PM yesterday. An experienced shooter was teaching an inexperienced shooter next to me. A staff member was looking through the window most of the time cause there were not many people in the showroom.
Very little policy changes will stop the suicide attempts.
New shooters should have the ability to come to a range and rent something they may buy. If I'm uncomfortable next to a group that is clearly new shooters, I have never been turned away at the desk at OT to move to another lane. YES, I look around at who's next to me every time I go.

How does a person accidentally shoot himself in the head with a revolver?

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someone not following common sense and rules of gun safety. BTW, what media?

Mr H said:

Last I was aware, they do not allow loaded mags. But then, they don't dig through your gear either... just check for 'clear'

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My experience there as well....

Melnic said:

I was also at OT until about 1:30PM yesterday. An experienced shooter was teaching an inexperienced shooter next to me. A staff member was looking through the window most of the time cause there were not many people in the showroom.
Very little policy changes will stop the suicide attempts.
New shooters should have the ability to come to a range and rent something they may buy. If I'm uncomfortable next to a group that is clearly new shooters, I have never been turned away at the desk at OT to move to another lane. YES, I look around at who's next to me every time I go.



someone not following common sense and rules of gun safety. BTW, what media?

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I clicked on the WBAL app this morning while getting ready for work. Their morning news articles were still reporting it as an accident and so did their 0800 newscast.

I think 240 was refering to rentals vs suicide , within that specific range. Overall no corelation of firearm ownership.

With any type of handgun - some sort of malfunction , or otherwise feel the need to look at somthing on the gun. Bring up close to face for closer look. Want to get look at muzzle or front of cylnder , or bore , turn gun part ways , move head to side for better angle. Have an oppsie then , and bullet in the face.

Of course the missing information is shot placement other than "head". Face n from 12-18 inches could have been accidental. Contact to temple probably not.

I was at a range in Florida when a suicide happened. Not an unhealthy old white guy but a young African-American. It's just going to happen.

Sad, but the On Target location near a majar military installation means some PTSD cases are bound to happen.

Biggfoot44 said:

I think 240 was refering to rentals vs suicide , within that specific range. Overall no corelation of firearm ownership.

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This.

just referring to the hazards of gun rental vs the potential for the same suicidal person to switch tactics.

Debated whether or not to post here... but I was at the range, on the line, when the event happened.

On the line at the time there [were] only 3 of us. I was in lane 2, a gentleman next to me was in lane 3 (who turned out to be a US Marshal). Apparently the victim was initially placed on our side of the range, but then asked to be moved to the other side of the partition, on lane 12 or 13, don't remember which, because he was concerned about "flying brass." Even though I am a physician, I don't wish to go through the gory details again, but based on the location [and size] of the wound I have no doubt that it was a suicide attempt. I was prepared to do CPR, but after quickly assessing him I realized he was breathing and still had a pulse. I told them to hold pressure to the wound and made sure the staff who [was on the phone with the 911 operator] was aware that he still had a pulse, then we got pushed out of firing range and stayed in the store until we were questioned by police.

I just want to say, on that day, we were being watched an RSO and other On Target staff. I think the reason he asked to be on the other side of the range was to get away from the employee that was watching our side of the range.

I too am a bit iffy about On Target, especially on busy weekends, which is why I go in the middle of the week. Generally speaking it is usually just military folk who are just getting off the base - and this was totally the case on that day. There was a US Marshal taking a course at Ft. Meade, a couple of active duty military folk looking to get practice in, and I think only one civilian other than myself. But the staff that day was good.

Obviously I was a bit rattled about the whole experience... luckily in my profession I have access to professionals to talk to about this. Bottom line, this guy had a plan, and there is very little anyone could do to stop it once it reached that point. And the fact of the matter is, it is very dangerous to try and stop someone who is bent on committing suicide when they have a loaded weapon in their hand. They are already taking their life, taking another on their way to their primary goal is of very little consequence.

Furthermore, after doing some research (because I feel like in tragic events something has to be learned from the experience), this isn't uncommon. It is a very well known fact that suicides happen at ranges, particularly at down times (middle of the week). In the LA area there were 60 suicides at 20 ranges over a 2 year period. A friend who used to be an RSO at Silver Eagle out in VA confirmed, and told me they get training on trying to spot people who may be suicidal, and even have a "SOP" in the event an apparent suicidal person walks into the range. And even there it happens at least once a year. Ranges obviously don't want this stuff public, not because of business, but because they are trying to prevent copycats. This is why I think a lot of the reports are still listing it as an "accident." All the precautions in the world won't stop someone once they have a well thought out plan to commit suicide.

What bothers me is that had he been [more] crazy, in a split second he could of taken anyone else out at the range. I think I will be away from ranges for a little while, but the next time I go, it won't be alone. I think for me, the trust that we all have in others, especially at ranges, is broken.