Inheriting pistols out of state

Eviljagtech · Aug 2, 2015

Ok, my dad passed on the 29th in NY and ATM I'm as you might have guessed having a mess of a time with everything that is coming out of this. One of the biggest issues is that he owned 8 pistols. All firearms pass the nazi like safe act rules and only 2 aren't revolvers so they I guess are all complaint. I have owned regulated guns pre October 1 st but don't have my HQL yet. Just had dent time to get it though it looks like I will Need to one. I just don't know who to call in maryland to ask about the transfers to maryland and if there being 7-8 pistols means I have to do something different are send them to someone else. As far as the ny side goes we are going to have a very good friend of the family who owns his own ffl company to pick up, transport and store the pistols per ny law till transfer but we don't want to burden his business but any help would be good. I was having a hard time finding this info updated post oct 1st online about this subject.

Bob A · Aug 3, 2015

I'm sorry for your loss.

As I understand it, if these firearms fall into the Curio & Relic category, you don't need the HQL to receive them. I believe they still have to be transferred to a MD FFL, unless you have a C&R FFL yourself.

Any of the guns that are fifty years old or older fall into this category; there are some other exceptions as well for some newer guns. BATFE has a list somewhere.

MSP waives some fees for inherited firearms, I think. Hopefully someone more familiar with the law will chime in.
.

rico903 · Aug 3, 2015

Sorry for your loss. How long has your dad owned the pistols? If a long time there is an out but not kosher so I don't recommend it. Get your HQL and Md Collectors letter so you can get them all at once. Given your location, I would talk to Engage Armament and see if they will cut you a break on a multiple gun transfer. You can apply for the Collectors letter ASAP and get it in 2 weeks. HQL, you'll have to work that into your schedule. Not a big deal. Engage may know a finger print place by you and it should only take a couple of weeks after you get them and apply. I firmly believe that between Andy and Nate they can help you get this worked out as easily as possible. And legally.

Pinecone · Aug 3, 2015

.10 Inheritance.

A. For the transfer or receipt of a regulated firearm by inheritance, the recipient shall submit a completed firearm application to the Secretary in the prescribed format.

B. For the transfer of a regulated firearm by inheritance to a recipient who is younger than 21 years old:

(1) The title of the firearm may be transferred to the recipient;

(2) The estate shall retain possession of the firearm until the recipient is 21 years old; and

(3) On receipt of the firearm, the recipient shall comply with the provisions of this chapter and Public Safety Article, Title 5, Subtitle 1, Annotated Code of Maryland.

29.03.01.10.

CLee · Aug 3, 2015

First of all I am sorry for your loss.

NateIU10 · Aug 3, 2015

Feel free to give me to shoot me an email at Nate@engagearmament.com and I'll get you my cell. No HQL is needed and you do NOT want to go through an FFL. Bring them into the state and send in a 77R to MSP for the handguns. I'd be happy to give you the form and help you fill it out.

Sorry for your loss.

BigDaddy · Aug 3, 2015

CLee said:
If I may somewhat hijack here I have a similar question. I'm awaiting the paperwork to come back from my C&R (money was pulled from my account 1-2 weeks ago) so I hope to have that soon.
>snip
his service revolver
a 9mm and
Ruger Bearcat (definitely falls in the 50 years). So I would probably be okay on the Bearcat but we would need an FFL for his service revolver and 9 mm? He has not passed away yet but has agreed the guns are to come to me and I may pick them up one visit. Just need to know how to handle bringing them home legally.

Thanks in advance for guidance...

I don't see how a C&R is useful in this scenario for a MD resident unless both you and your Dad have C&R. Because modern handguns are involved and it is not an inheritance, you need an HQL

The question then becomes, how can your father gift you 2 modern handguns and one C&R in the same 30 days period?

I think you can't go wrong being a MD Designated Collector, which is different than holding a C&R. The law allows multiple purchases for a collection in the same 30 day period. It really doesn't spell out your circumstances so the state trooper is going go by the law on purchases.

I expect the experts will say you then have to follow the 77R route.

Eviljagtech · Aug 3, 2015

I'm going down to the dealer to ask about the ny state laws on this as all pistols are registered to the previous owner and my mom doesn't own a pistol permit. The police have already come by before I got to my moms house to try and pick them up, lucky for everyone no one knows the safe combo and the state police left for now but will be back as there is a 15 day grace period before they crack the safe and plain take every gun in the. All the long guns are non-regulated so no issues. The pistols only 2 are c&r the rest are modern. I don't want to get my mom in trouble here in New York by making 8 pistols come home to maryland with me without a paper trail.

We have a good lawyer with us who is being helpful but knows mostly ny law

BigDaddy · Aug 3, 2015

Eviljagtech said:
there is a 15 day grace period before they crack the safe and plain take every gun in the. All the long guns are non-regulated so no issues. The pistols only 2 are c&r the rest are modern. I don't want to get my mom in trouble here in New York by making 8 pistols come home to maryland with me without a paper trail.

We have a good lawyer with us who is being helpful but knows mostly ny law

Holy moley, I've been reading about NY law this morning and it is even more Draconian than Maryland. Depending where in NY, even driving up there to bring them home could be illegal in NY. Maryland law is the least of your worries.

I would want to avoid mandatory seizure and possibly dubious storage conditions and the bureaucracy to liberate them even if it cost more $$ for FFL's in both states.

pcfixer · Aug 3, 2015

Is it possible for your mom to make a trust with all the pistols?

Eviljagtech · Aug 3, 2015

Ok, talked to the store, one of his new guys is a retired ny state police officer and he was very nice and gave us the complete run Down of what needs to happen on the ny side of this. First we need to show death certificate, second we need to bring his pistol permit which is we're all his pistols are registered to. Third we need to bring these into the store for storage and paper work needed to removed all pistols from his permit do to my mom not having her permit done in time. Under ny law if no one in the house hold take possession of them with in 15 days of death. Then the state will own till the courts judge otherwise. So as this we need to start the paper work on this end fast to prevent the state of ny from stealing them from us. As for just taking them and doing a 77r, ny has already come to the house looking for them to take possession of them but lucky for us it took 3 days for us to find the safe code putting us in the 15 day period. If we don't have paper work for we're they are ny will press charges of my mother, second issue is my brother has been accused of domestic abuse( his wife has sense been committed) but it has yet been expunged so he isn't allowed under ny law (yeah accused not convinced). I think getting out of east Germany would have easier. So what are my options in md? I know I'll have to get my HGQL and how long does a DC cost and how long would it take to get? What do storage costs run at a reliable store( engage costs?)? Any help would grateful thank you.

Oh and for a rant cause I need it. This horse shit is why you need to watch out for new guns

babalou · Aug 3, 2015

Man, sorry for your loss!!!! Prayers..

Blacksmith101 · Aug 3, 2015

NateIU10 said:
Feel free to give me to shoot me an email at Nate@engagearmament.com and I'll get you my cell. No HQL is needed and you do NOT want to go through an FFL. Bring them into the state and send in a 77R to MSP for the handguns. I'd be happy to give you the form and help you fill it out.

Sorry for your loss.

Reread Nate's post above, he is a Maryland FFL (Engage Armament).

Once you satisfy New York's draconian laws all Maryland requires for an inheritance is the 77R.
NO HQL required for inheritance. Just need to fill out and file a form 77R with the state police.

There are other threads on inheritance that say the same thing.

From the thread "The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers"
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=114585&highlight=inheritance

1. Beginning October 1, 2013, receipt of a regulated firearm, which from now on means a handgun (because currently regulated long guns are going to be made banned long guns by the bill), generally will require a "handgun qualification license" (HQL), which is a license "to purchase, rent, or receive a handgun." (Pages 26-33.) The HQL is not required for an active or "retired" member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard, for active or retired law enforcement officers, nor will it be required for transactions by licensed firearms manufacturers or licensed dealers. Also, the HQL is not required for anyone to purchase any handgun defined in federal law as an antique, or curio or relic. (This has nothing to do with whether or not the handgun buyer possesses a federal "C&R" license and should not be confused with such. The bill makes no changes with respect to the previous rules for those who do hold the federal "C&R" license.) One must be age 21 to apply for the HQL. To obtain the HQL requires fingerprinting, a $50 fee paid to the state, and proof of satisfactory completion of either "a firearms safety training course approved by the Secretary [of the Maryland State Police]," which must be at least 4 hours long and cover certain specified subjects, or else has a certificate that he has successfully completed the Maryland Department of Natural Resources (DNR) course in firearms safety and safe hunting practices. [Updated Sept. 14, 2013: MSP Lt. John Cook, commander of the Licensing Section, affirmed in an email that all DNR-issued hunter safety certificates will suffice for this purpose, no matter when they were issued (DNR began issuing them in about 1976), unless a certificate was formally revoked by the DNR. The status of comparable certificates that were issued in other states to persons who are now Maryland residents, which the DNR law requires Maryland to accept for hunting-license purposes, is still under review.] There are certain exceptions to the training requirement, including an exception for anyone who "lawfully owns a regulated firearm" at the time of the application (how this will work is discussed here), and another for any "honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States" -- these people still need the handgun qualification license, but would not be subject to the training requirement. (Another exemption to the training requirement applies to a "qualified handgun instructor," which includes among others "a certified firearms instructor who . . . has a certification issued by a nationally recognized firearms organization.") There are certain specifications for the training course, including the 4-hour requirement and a requirement that it include "an orientation component that demonstrates the person's safe operation and handling of a firearm." [Update, September 16, 2013: Handguns may be passed on by inheritance to Maryland residents who do not possess a HQL. This is because Public Safety Article Title 5 (Firearms), Subtitle 1 (the subtitle containing the laws on regulated firearms), contains a provision that specifies that Subtitle 1 "does not apply" to certain things, one of these being "(8) the receipt of a regulated firearm by inheritance, if the heir forwards to the Secretary a completed application to purchase or transfer that regulated firearm. . ." This is not new language from SB 281, but longstanding law. According to MSP Lt. John Cook, who heads the Licensing Section, "Because inheritance is generally exempted from the Subtitle 1, it is exempted from the HQL requirement." (Source: Email, Sept. 16, 2013)]

Look up the referenced law yourself to be sure but the above gives the specific law to look up.

Mike OTDP · Aug 3, 2015

Who's the executor of the estate? That may also play into the legal equation.

I hate to say it, but you may need to consult with an attorney in New York.

BigDaddy · Aug 3, 2015

Eviljagtech said:
Ok, talked to the store, one of his new guys is a retired ny state police officer and he was very nice and gave us the complete run Down of what needs to happen on the ny side of this. First we need to show death certificate, second we need to bring his pistol permit which is we're all his pistols are registered to. Third we need to bring these into the store for storage and paper work needed to removed all pistols from his permit do to my mom not having her permit done in time. Under ny law if no one in the house hold take possession of them with in 15 days of death. Then the state will own till the courts judge otherwise. So as this we need to start the paper work on this end fast to prevent the state of ny from stealing them from us. As for just taking them and doing a 77r, ny has already come to the house looking for them to take possession of them but lucky for us it took 3 days for us to find the safe code putting us in the 15 day period. If we don't have paper work for we're they are ny will press charges of my mother, second issue is my brother has been accused of domestic abuse( his wife has sense been committed) but it has yet been expunged so he isn't allowed under ny law (yeah accused not convinced). I think getting out of east Germany would have easier. So what are my options in md? I know I'll have to get my HGQL and how long does a DC cost and how long would it take to get? What do storage costs run at a reliable store( engage costs?)? Any help would grateful thank you.

Oh and for a rant cause I need it. This horse shit is why you need to watch out for new guns

Take a deep breath. You were a little hard to follow. And I am sorry for you loss, I have been there myself.

Working backward, I expect as an IP, with the reputation they have, Engage would charge a fair price. In MD we don't "store" firearms at gun stores so nobody is going to have shopped around for handgun storage prices.

You don't need to be a Designated Collector (DC) to inherit multiple regulated firearms. My earlier comment was directed at someone looking to receive them as a gift from a still living father.

I don't think you need a HQL either for an inheritance. We've had lots of threads on this. Hopefully someone will confirm this., Nate can I am sure.

After they go to the NY gun store, you lost, us or at least me. Can the gun store hold them, ship them in the 15 day period? As a son are you "household"?

If the executor can legally send them out of state (and I don't know this, I am asking) via a local dealer before the 15 days are up it would seem pretty simple. Get them to the gun store, have a sit down with Nate. He can send a copy of his FFL to the LGS, they can ship them. This is probably done all the time up there.

Bob A · Aug 3, 2015

Sounds like step one is to get the guns out of NY. Have a NY FFL ship them to a MD FFL. Your NY attorney should be able to figure out how to get that done legally.

Once in MD, sounds like you just need to have the MD FFL submit the proper paperwork to MSP, wait 7 days, and take them home.

IANAL, so take it for what it's worth. But get the stuff away from the NY Gestapo, pronto.

Andras · Aug 3, 2015

Once the NY FFL deals with the NY stuff he can ship them to you. They do not need to go to a MD FFL.

GCA1968 allows direct transference from the estate to the inheritor exclusive of any FFL involvement. MD requires you to file a 77r w/i 5 days once you take possession of a handgun.

for example:

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport
into or receive in the State where the
person resides (or if a corporation or other
business entity, where it maintains a place
of business) any firearm purchased or
otherwise obtained by such person outside
that State: Provided, That the provisions
of this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who
lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or
intestate succession in a State other than
his State of residence from transporting
the firearm into or receiving it in that State,
if it is lawful for such person to purchase
or possess such firearm in that State

§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm
to any other nonlicensee, who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause
to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the transferor
resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental
of a firearm to any person for temporary
use for lawful sporting purposes.

eta- I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

ea2- fixed below concern.

Bob A · Aug 3, 2015

Andras said:
Once the NY FFL deals with the NY stuff you can go there and take them home with you if you wish. They do not need to go to a MD FFL.

He cannot possess those guns in NY. If he picks them up, and they're found in his possession in NY, they can toss him in jail for a long time. They have to be removed from NY before he can take possession; that's why they need to be sent to an FFL outside NY.

Andras · Aug 4, 2015

Bob A said:
He cannot possess those guns in NY. If he picks them up, and they're found in his possession in NY, they can toss him in jail for a long time. They have to be removed from NY before he can take possession; that's why they need to be sent to an FFL outside NY.

Then the FFL can ship them directly to him, they still do not need to go to a MD FFL.

Eviljagtech · Aug 4, 2015

Andras, Bob a is right. In fact the laws state that no one in the house can legally hand the regulated drear a in the house and we are having the shop owner pick them up, he is very close to the family for the last 25 years and was a fellow vet with my dad so I know that they will be in good hands here.

Big daddy; sorry for the messy reply much of this is happening to fast for our family and there is so much to get done and the firearms are only one of a dozen issues that are coming up as I type this. It's not what happens in ny I am worried about but what happens when they are shipped to md are what steps i need to do in md to take.

As of now, my father had no will, this was decided years ago in an emergancy that I would possession of his gun collection. The state of ny's req I know, they are.
1: death certificate
2: ny pistol permit for proof of ownership
3: writing confirmation as to new ownership as per will or next of kin (my mom)
4: 15 days from time death to give up firearms to ffl or state police for safe keeping until transfer is completed

The catch is IN New York, by law the guns MUST but transfered either out of state or on to another permit, which neither my brother or mother have. As per nys law then they are property of the state now and only belong to the family in name only till they are transfered. This is why I'm moving so fast.

I will send an email to Nick at Engage about this as ny requires its FFL dealers to send only to ffl dealers in the case of a transfer. So it has to go to either the state police or another ffl for paperwork.

You got to treat New York the same as a old eat bloc state, the rules are the same along with taxes. I'm sorry if I go a bit quick I am writing on my phone during brakes in this mess and because dad pw'd his comp and didn't tell anyone what it was :p. it was so like him

Inheriting pistols out of state

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