Ccw in public libraries?

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  • woodstock

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 28, 2009
    4,172
    now i see the issue, like the OP, i was curious too. so when i got home from running my errands, i called them to get the official word, they transferred my call to the county's HQ for the library and the lady had to look it up. she did in fact say that guns are prohibited on library property. end of conversation.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    now i see the issue, like the OP, i was curious too. so when i got home from running my errands, i called them to get the official word, they transferred my call to the county's HQ for the library and the lady had to look it up. she did in fact say that guns are prohibited on library property. end of conversation.

    Prohibited by law or by some bureaucrats decree?
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,110
    there in lies the conundrum. remember the psychologist in PA a few years back who took down an active shooter in the hospital where he worked? the hospital had a GUN FREE policy, yet he saved numerous lives, and yes he did have a CC permit. and i would have to say if the person is intent on cause mass killing, it is a good chance i would have to do what i would have to do and HOPE my MDSHOOTERS community would come to my aid and help with the legal expenses. :smoke:

    Apples and Oranges, PA has codified in it's state law that business may lawfully post signs and prohibit carrying of firearms on/in their property, and those signs and policies have the force of law, since it is codified in PA state law.

    No such force of law exists with either signs or policies for the library, or anywhere else for that matter in Maryland, that is not specifically noted as off limits per Maryland state statute.
     
    Last edited:

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,110
    There's no conundrum at all here. The psychologist was an employee of a business with a no gun policy. He had the option of working elsewhere but instead chose to violate his employer's policy. In the end he was not terminated as I recall. To ask an establishment about their policy is to say "I'm carrying a gun, can I come in?" Stay concealed, keep quiet about it, and only honor GFZS that are written into law.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    He also violated state law, as PA has a law that provides for signage along with a no guns policy. The signs and the policy have a force in law, that the same do not here in Maryland.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,300
    Apples and Oranges, PA has codified in it's state law that business may lawfully post signs and prohibit carrying of firearms on/in their property, and those signs and policies have the force of law, since it is codified in PA state law.

    Now such force of law exists with either signs or policies for the library, or anywhere else for that matter in Maryland, that is not specifically noted as off limits per Maryland state statute.

    Typo?
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    28,431
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Apples and Oranges, PA has codified in it's state law that business may lawfully post signs and prohibit carrying of firearms on/in their property, and those signs and policies have the force of law, since it is codified in PA state law.

    Now such force of law exists with either signs or policies for the library, or anywhere else for that matter in Maryland, that is not specifically noted as off limits per Maryland state statute.



    Handgunlaw.us disagrees with you.


    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
     

    woodstock

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 28, 2009
    4,172

    “NO”
    “Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.”
    “No Firearm” signs in Pennsylvania have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law."

    in case some are to lazy/inept to look it up. thanks stovepipe :smoke:
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    “NO”
    “Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.”
    “No Firearm” signs in Pennsylvania have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law."

    in case some are to lazy/inept to look it up. thanks stovepipe :smoke:
    Trespass law is no different armed or unarmed. If asked to leave private property you must do so or risk arrest.

    IMHO carrying lawfully but against some store or business policy is a personal decision. I won't judge people who make either choice. I will conceal my choice.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,110
    “NO”
    “Handgunlaw.us highly recommends that you not enter a place that is posted "No Firearms" no matter what the state laws read/mean on signage. We recommend you print out the No Guns = No Money Cards and give one to the owner of the establishment that has the signage." As responsible gun owners and upholders of the 2nd Amendment we should also honor the rights of property owners to control their own property even if we disagree with them.”
    “No Firearm” signs in Pennsylvania have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law."

    in case some are to lazy/inept to look it up. thanks stovepipe :smoke:

    I stand corrected.
     

    woodstock

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 28, 2009
    4,172
    Trespass law is no different armed or unarmed. If asked to leave private property you must do so or risk arrest.

    IMHO carrying lawfully but against some store or business policy is a personal decision. I won't judge people who make either choice. I will conceal my choice.

    please re-read the OP's original concern, then realize how we got to the point we are. :smoke:

    to the OP, i apologize for thread jacking, but this is fun.

    a day in the life of a wear/carry permit holder; HOW RIDICULOUS!

    Mr Jones-a CC Permitter, had to meet his wife at her office, which is located in the county court house, to haul boxes of paper out to her car as she had to deliver it to a law firm representing a case [boxes of paper are HEAVY]. Then he had to go to Labcorp to do clinical blood work, from there he had to stop by Zales to get his wife's anniversary present, from there he had to go to the post office to pick up parcel shipments necessary for his business, then to the county high school to pick up his daughter, then to the private elementary school to pick up his twin sons, after which he had to go to the Bank of America to make a mortgage payment then to the BBT bank to do some deposits. After such a long day he decided to take the kids to Target department store for odds and ends and then to Panera Bread to get dinner, and picked up a burrito bowl from Chipotle as his wife likes Mexican for dinner.

    QUESTION: how many violations can you count here, either federal, local, or privatized? RIDICULOUS! thank you for participating.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    please re-read the OP's original concern, then realize how we got to the point we are. :smoke:

    to the OP, i apologize for thread jacking, but this is fun.

    a day in the life of a wear/carry permit holder; HOW RIDICULOUS!

    Mr Jones-a CC Permitter, had to meet his wife at her office, which is located in the county court house, to haul boxes of paper out to her car as she had to deliver it to a law firm representing a case [boxes of paper are HEAVY]. Then he had to go to Labcorp to do clinical blood work, from there he had to stop by Zales to get his wife's anniversary present, from there he had to go to the post office to pick up parcel shipments necessary for his business, then to the county high school to pick up his daughter, then to the private elementary school to pick up his twin sons, after which he had to go to the Bank of America to make a mortgage payment then to the BBT bank to do some deposits. After such a long day he decided to take the kids to Target department store for odds and ends and then to Panera Bread to get dinner, and picked up a burrito bowl from Chipotle as his wife likes Mexican for dinner.

    QUESTION: how many violations can you count here, either federal, local, or privatized? RIDICULOUS! thank you for participating.
    What are these "Privatized Violations" you refer to?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    The numerical answer is 3, possibly 4 the private school has a no gun policy.
     

    Clif

    Member
    Dec 3, 2012
    56
    Back to the original topic of libraries ... My wife is a librarian and there are some truely crazy people frequenting those places, you wouldn't believe the stories I hear every week. Homeless people getting out of the cold/heat are the least of her worries. I really wish she could/would carry at work.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,489
    Westminster USA
    The MD statute on preemption allows counties to make rules about public buildings.

    MD 4-209
    .
     

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    ELCAM

    Member
    Dec 17, 2011
    67
    Silver Spring, MD
    Thing is since MD has such limited CCW most places don't bother posting anything. If we ever make any substantial advances regarding becoming a shall-issue state that would likely change.
     

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