Accuracy testing handgun loads?

When I create a new 9mm load I shoot at a target about 7 feet away and see how the bullets group. I do not use a rest. I have never had a problem with any of my loads as they all group equally well at 7 yards offhand.

How should I test my hand loads for accuracy? I suspect I should use a bench and some sort of rest? What is a good distance for testing?

Thanks,
Eric

I would think it would be tough without something to hold the handgun tightly.

I reload to the middle of the range for powder loads, check for pressure signs (too hot), function and carbon on the casings (not hot enough), settle on a load and then forge ahead.

For me pistol reloading is about saving $$$, versus rifle loading where I'm going for accuracy.

If you are testing your load ( or gun per se ) , you need to eliminate as many variables as possable. Personally I can shoot bravced two hand reasonably close to sandbag results , but that's for you to experement with with known control loads.

The standard distance is 25yd. But as long as doing apples to apples strictly for yourself , pick a distance between 15-25yd. 7yd is not a meaningful distance , because with reasonably aaccutate loads from a reasonably accurate pistol , you will typically have one hole groups , and difficult to measure any differences.

Ok , post #2 came in while I was (baadly) typing.

Once I have a haandle on the aaccuracy expectations of a particular pistol, I will usually have an accuracy par standard in mind for a particulaar catagory of load , and my requirements thereof. If somthing falls within my threshold , I will usually declare victory , instead of obsessing to shave another .25 inch. Ie for hunting within iron sight distances , 1m. 1.5in @ 25yd is acceptable , and 1.25in is plenty good enough. If intended for across the room , or primarily for rapid shooting @ 7yd aand inbeer can sized groups @ 10yd are good enough.

I have a few 9mm carbines that I shoot at 100 yds. If you are just shooting at 7 yds, unless you have some big problems I don't see how you couldn't get acceptable results, even if your shooting a round ball out of a smooth bore.

Jmorrismetal said:

I have a few 9mm carbines that I shoot at 100 yds. If you are just shooting at 7 yds, unless you have some big problems I don't see how you couldn't get acceptable results, even if your shooting a round ball out of a smooth bore.

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I shoot in action shooting competitions. Not well mind you, but I shoot out to 50 yards at times. Those darn 4 inch by 4 inch knock down targets at 15 to 20 yards will test your religion. The long shots are usually man sized targets.

Thanks,
Eric

You'll read about (or perhaps see if you're lucky) controlled measurement of handgun and load accuracy using a Ransom rest. That said, they're expensive. Perhaps more importantly, unless you're a particularly practiced or an especially gifted handgunner, your improvement focus almost certainly lies elsewhere.

As mentioned in the good posts above, handgun accuracy is about "good and good enough". The "right answer" is about your application first and foremost. But within the context of your desired application, think about 3 variables.

What sort of accuracy is this gun capable of?

What sort of accuracy is this ammo capable of?

What sort of accuracy is this shooter capable of?

You'll find far and away that your greatest return with accuracy with handguns will involve spending your time and your money and your energy on improving the fundamentals of the shooter.

If you test your accuracy in a way that is different from how you normally shoot i.e. sand bags, rest etc. remember your point of impact will be different from your normal hold. This is alright because for accuracy you should be only concerned about group size. After you develop the most accurate load then adjust your point of impact to coincide with your point of aim while shooting with your normal hold.

For me sandbags work, not as scientifically precise as a Ransome Rest but good enough for my shooting. I do like to accuracy test all my loads to establish a baseline then I know any bigger groups or flyers are caused by the nut behind the trigger. Nothing better than taking away all your excuses (it was the ammo, the gun has problems) to make you practice more.

Jmorrismetal said:

If you are just shooting at 7 yds, unless you have some big problems I don't see how you couldn't get acceptable results, even if your shooting a round ball out of a smooth bore.

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ditto, I almost never shoot past 25feet and when offhand, my technique, how my eyes are doing that day and the trigger of the gun are the major factors in my opinion. I work up loads that are just under the average of factory loads in fps but still reliably cycle my gun. I'm not a bullseye shooter so I don't shoot 25 yards. If you are going to shoot for accuracy at long distances, you need a rest.

For rifles, I test loads from bags, that way if I'm shooting offhand, I have nothing to blame but myself.

justeric said:

I shoot in action shooting competitions. Not well mind you, but I shoot out to 50 yards at times. Those darn 4 inch by 4 inch knock down targets at 15 to 20 yards will test your religion. The long shots are usually man sized targets.

Thanks,
Eric

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Who comes up with these targets? Just a suggestion, use a bench and a big bag rest to test mechanical accuracy. That eliminates the shooter from the equation. IF you get tiny groups at 15 yards, you know the problem with those 4x4s is with the shooter

jimbobborg said:

Who comes up with these targets? Just a suggestion, use a bench and a big bag rest to test mechanical accuracy. That eliminates the shooter from the equation. IF you get tiny groups at 15 yards, you know the problem with those 4x4s is with the shooter

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I shoot matches at Peacemakers in WV. They have all kinds of targets to make life tough especially in the 2 and 3 gun competitions.

justeric said:

I shoot matches at Peacemakers in WV. They have all kinds of targets to make life tough especially in the 2 and 3 gun competitions.

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Cavalier uses them for 3-Gun pistol, and 8" sections of steel pipe for shotgun at similar ranges. I need #6 shot and full chokes to knock them over The IC choke wasn't cutting it.

Uncle Duke said:

You'll read about (or perhaps see if you're lucky) controlled measurement of handgun and load accuracy using a Ransom rest. That said, they're expensive. Perhaps more importantly, unless you're a particularly practiced or an especially gifted handgunner, your improvement focus almost certainly lies elsewhere.

As mentioned in the good posts above, handgun accuracy is about "good and good enough". The "right answer" is about your application first and foremost. But within the context of your desired application, think about 3 variables.

1.) What sort of accuracy is this gun capable of?

2.) What sort of accuracy is this ammo capable of?

3.) What sort of accuracy is this shooter capable of?

You'll find far and away that your greatest return with accuracy with handguns will involve spending your time and your money and your energy on improving the fundamentals of the shooter.

Click to expand...

U.D hit upon it "improving" the fundamentals of the "shooter" foremost..
A Ransom rest will give you the data you need given no.1 and no.2 above
but will not take in to account no.3 the shooter (you).

Yes the rest is expensive but a "tool" to test your loads (ammo) and
your handgun(s) limitations. I will use this scenario, one day at the range
I could not get a good group at 25yds with my Custom Colt, a load that I
shoot all the time (H&G 68 200SWC), a friend of mine picked up my gun, he
had shot it before, put all 8 rounds in the center, gave it back to me and
said "the problem is you", locked it in the rest same thing except a smaller group....

-Rock

Rockzilla said:

U.D hit upon it "improving" the fundamentals of the "shooter" foremost..
A Ransom rest will give you the data you need given no.1 and no.2 above
but will not take in to account no.3 the shooter (you).

Yes the rest is expensive but a "tool" to test your loads (ammo) and
your handgun(s) limitations. I will use this scenario, one day at the range
I could not get a good group at 25yds with my Custom Colt, a load that I
shoot all the time (H&G 68 200SWC), a friend of mine picked up my gun, he
had shot it before, put all 8 rounds in the center, gave it back to me and
said "the problem is you", locked it in the rest same thing except a smaller group....

-Rock

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Shoeweee, that Ransom Rest is close to $400. I would love to buy one but I can't afford the luxury. Does anyone that shoots at AGC or PNTC have a Ransom Rest? If so I would be happy to pay $25 to help me test some loads. I'd probably only need to shoot around 50 rounds at 10 targets. I belong to PNTC but I don't belong to AGC.

It seems like the Ransom Rest takes the human error out of load development for pistols. Maybe I should start saving my pennies since a Ransom Rest seems to be a tool worth having.

Thanks,
Eric

As noted a Ransom Rest is expensive, takes experience to use it. Additionally a solid anchor such as a cement foundation with a steel mounting platform is needed to extract greatest accuracy. The top bullseye smiths use such a base.

Through the years I have noticed the following:

7 yards doesn't mean much in accuracy testing, noted above. If groups are bad at 7 yards there is a severe gun, load and/or shooter problem.

Experience has indicated 25 yards is the minimum to get a good idea of true accuracy potential. Debates can be made for 15 yards for some.

Some loads do "break up" at certain points. So one needs to test at all prospective ranges. Just changing a bullet brand, a good load I use went from good 75 and 100 meter groups to "where the blazes are they goin'?". The load with that bullet was acceptable at 50 yards.

You will improve your technique on the bench as well as standing. Having a rest is not a given great shot, good results must still be garnered used good shooting technique. Brian Enos is a big supporter to bench shooting to improve technique...does the gun recover from recoil in the same position, is the same sight picture being seen shot to shot, and so on. So bench shooting is still learning to shoot.

Calling your shots is especially important with either iron sights or optics of some type. Calling your shots keeps your attention at the gun. You are shooting the gun so the focus must be there. You are shooting at the target, a hit is a result of shooting the gun.

Informed shooters have determined the best three shot group in a bench rested group is close to Ransom Rest results.

I only confirm a prospective load as accurate after I have shot it on at least a few occasions with the same or very similar results. This would be especially from the intended shooting method...standing or off bench/bags, and so on. And calling the shots. For groups I only discount fliers I know were caused by me. Sometimes we get a good group going and know it...then blow it with the last couple shots we know were the shooter's doing.

Don't try too hard...just shoot with focus on good technique.

The best single thing you can do to improve handgun accuracy is read this:
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

Thanks for all the suggestions on improving accuracy. I feel that I am pretty accurate but could still learn more. I'm just switching over to a new bullet and want to know how to tell the difference between the accuracy of one load to another. I think I have enough wiggle in my shot that I will not be able to discern much difference between the loads when I shoot them offhand. I am not shooting bullseye competitions so I don't have to chase accuracy that far. I would like to know if 4.7 grains of powder shoots more accurately than 5.0 grains though.

I think I will try shooting off a bag until I get good accuracy results. Then I will use the same hold with my test rounds.

Thanks a bunch all,
Eric

justeric said:

Shoeweee, that Ransom Rest is close to $400. I would love to buy one but I can't afford the luxury. Does anyone that shoots at AGC or PNTC have a Ransom Rest? If so I would be happy to pay $25 to help me test some loads. I'd probably only need to shoot around 50 rounds at 10 targets. I belong to PNTC but I don't belong to AGC.

It seems like the Ransom Rest takes the human error out of load development for pistols. Maybe I should start saving my pennies since a Ransom Rest seems to be a tool worth having.

Thanks,
Eric

Click to expand...

let me free up sometime, not near you though but willing to let you use it or
can set it up for you or down the road if you want to check things out, the offer
will remain open.
With me it's not about the money.
please let me know what handguns you want to test so I can bring the right
inserts..grips.

And it does pretty much eliminate the human part of it. There is a great wealth
of knowledge on this forum, brains to pick, experience, etc.



-Rock

Rockzilla said:

let me free up sometime, not near you though but willing to let you use it or
can set it up for you or down the road if you want to check things out, the offer
will remain open.
With me it's not about the money.
please let me know what handguns you want to test so I can bring the right
inserts..grips.

And it does pretty much eliminate the human part of it. There is a great wealth
of knowledge on this forum, brains to pick, experience, etc.



-Rock

Click to expand...

Hi Rock. Thank you for the very generous offer. I think I am going to buy a Caldwell pistol rest and see how that does. I'm not shooting bullseye competitions so I'm thinking as long as the stuff cycles I'm probably good. Anything on top of that is a bonus. I'll bet the Caldwell rest will work for my limited needs.

Thanks again for your offer!
Eric

justeric said:

Hi Rock. Thank you for the very generous offer. I think I am going to buy a Caldwell pistol rest and see how that does. I'm not shooting bullseye competitions so I'm thinking as long as the stuff cycles I'm probably good. Anything on top of that is a bonus. I'll bet the Caldwell rest will work for my limited needs.

Thanks again for your offer!
Eric

Click to expand...

your welcome any time, the Caldwell will do you well also. Down the road if you want to try it out, feel free to give a shout..
keep track of what you do, how they shoot, take notes.. you will be GTG.

-Rock