Coffee shop gun fallacies

RoadDawg · Dec 4, 2015

Well it's partly the fault of our community...

Unlike the damned liars who sell the BS (coffee shop gun facts etc...) day in and day out on every media they can find. We in the 2A community are quiet about the truth...

Sadly, many of us DO suffer from BGOS. And no, I'm not talking about the "overheard BS when you are on your way to work and don't have the time to correct the idiots" cases such as here in this thread. I'm referring to the many times when folks could take a second to dispell the BS... yet it just doesn't seem to be worth their time and effort to do so.

I know several folks who have avoided talking to me about the subject because although they are friends, they know my strong opinion and position on the 2A. Well some of that changed at another coffee shop yesterday. These same folks, some of them very liberal, are now wanting to know more about it.

One older guy has a daughter who teaches school. He never wanted a gun nor even to talk about guns... Until I reminded him that his daughter is in the same position as others who work in gun free zones. And I pointed out that even he would want a gun if someone ever tried to hurt his daughter. A look of total bewilderment came across his face and lights started coming on in his eyes. Suddenly the truth set in. The transformation from "don't GAF about it" to "oh damn, this shite is REAL!" was simply amazing.

One convert at a time folks... Be polite, civil, calm, firm, direct and above all HONEST AND KNOWLEDGEABLE about it... But, dammit... Talk to folks when you have a legitimate opportunity to educate them.

We do not need "offensive crusaders" but strong leader/educators are a much needed and hard to find commodity. With the current situation as it is... We have a good opportunity to gain a foothold where one was not possible before. Folks are seeking answers. If you have the answer... give it to them. If you don't have a particular answer... Find out for them and let them know. Or give them guidance on where to look for one. But in your efforts... Please don't do anything to alienate any potential future ally.

Overboost44 · Dec 4, 2015

RoadDawg said:
One convert at a time folks... Be polite, civil, calm, firm, direct and above all HONEST AND KNOWLEDGEABLE about it... But, dammit... Talk to folks when you have a legitimate opportunity to educate them.

We do not need "offensive crusaders" but strong leader/educators are a much needed and hard to find commodity. With the current situation as it is... We have a good opportunity to gain a foothold where one was not possible before. Folks are seeking answers. If you have the answer... give it to them. If you don't have a particular answer... Find out for them and let them know. Or give them guidance on where to look for one. But in your efforts... Please don't do anything to alienate any potential future ally.

Love this, RD. Right on target. Not crusaders, but educators of the truth. If we say the wrong thing accidentally or on purpose, we will be labeled as gun nuts or spreaders of misinformation.

Get people to think.

ccarson · Dec 4, 2015

Office chatter was mostly:
"We need to do something about easy access to guns"
"We need to stop gun violence "
etc.
Frankly I am shocked at the failure to think logically
We are under attack
We are have radical Islam at war with us
The knee jerk reaction is to voluntarily lay down your arms?!
Essentially liberals are preaching surrender

I tried the following logical approach
I am tired of the violence
I am tired of living under the threat of violence
I am worried that I will not be able to defend my family
If a similar attack were to take place in this very building would you prefer that I be sitting in my office disarmed or armed to the teeth?
Everyone agreed that having me armed would be better protection
Then why are you interested in supporting any legislation that would interfere with my ability to arm myself and to offer you protection?

I received mostly stunned silence and a few light bulbs appeared over people's heads. Later that day I was asked about what type of gun would make a good home defense choice. The same person was shocked to learn the steps involved to obtain a handgun in MD.
Irony is sometimes painful

protegeV · Dec 4, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
Now you are the biggest post whore ever. LOL, just kidding

No you're not!

:irule:

DanGuy48 · Dec 4, 2015

I honestly think it's all part of the plan. When I see the discussions here among knowledgeable people, trying to figure out WTF Maryland firearm laws mean, the confusion has to be deliberate. They don't really intend for any of the laws to fix anything. They just keep piling them on, whenever the opportunity permits, in the hopes that they can crush us under the sheer weight of their vagueness and number.

Rattlesnake46319 · Dec 4, 2015

smokey0118 said:
We must ban the quad espresso. There's no reason anyone needs more than a doppio.

That leads down a slippery slope to decaffeinating all coffee drinkers.

Jollyllama · Dec 4, 2015

Rattlesnake46319 said:
That leads down a slippery slope to decaffeinating all coffee drinkers.

Ban all military assault style beverages and high capacity mugs.

Z_Man · Dec 4, 2015

this is a real thing. there is so much misinformation it hurts. some people think the laws are the same all over the country. some people think you can just go to the store, buy a handgun and put it in your purse.

some people in this state think anyone can just get a carry permit, some people think there is a waiting period on long guns, and a lot of people think that wanting to carry a gun in public makes you crazy...

and don't get me started about when I told my mother in law how many rounds is in a case of ammo (yeah I got a case of ammo for my birthday... how much ammo is that, a thousand rounds....) I've never seen someone's jaw hit the floor and a flood of fear/confusion come across someone's face that quickly. it took her a few weeks to have a conversation with me without being convinced I was a psychopath...

protegeV · Dec 4, 2015

pbharvey said:
It's sad to reach retirement age and still be ignorant.

I've watched my 80 y/o grandfather get more and more ignorant to certain things over the last 20 years...

protegeV · Dec 4, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
Now you are the biggest post whore ever. LOL, just kidding

engineerbrian said:
I was thinking the same thing while reading his post.

minuit · Dec 4, 2015

RoadDawg said:
One convert at a time folks... Be polite, civil, calm, firm, direct and above all HONEST AND KNOWLEDGEABLE about it... But, dammit... Talk to folks when you have a legitimate opportunity to educate them.

We do not need "offensive crusaders" but strong leader/educators are a much needed and hard to find commodity. With the current situation as it is... We have a good opportunity to gain a foothold where one was not possible before. Folks are seeking answers. If you have the answer... give it to them. If you don't have a particular answer... Find out for them and let them know. Or give them guidance on where to look for one. But in your efforts... Please don't do anything to alienate any potential future ally.

I feel like I never have been successful in swaying opinion when I do engage in conversation and typically it's in a 10 on 1 scenario. For a while, I quit even saying anything, just felt like it wasn't worth it.

With the current state of the world I've been more proactive about creating a conversation or commenting on facebook, etc. But it's tough as it almost always devolves into at best I respectfully disagree, here's my opinion, here's your opinion and at worst feelings that each side thinks the other side is retarded.

Blacksmith101 · Dec 4, 2015

These terrorist shootings and bombings are an opportunity to get the truth out about guns. Many people who have never thought about owning a gun are now considering the possibility because they are scared for themselves and more importantly their families. But you need to be careful and slow in the presentation or you will scare them away. They are curious and willing to listen so take the opportunity to calmly and intelligently discuss the true facts about guns and gun laws, avoid the cliches like "Guns don't kill people do." instead give them facts that can be verified. Things like Hunting is safer than playing Tennis (similar numbers of participants half the number of injuries):
http://www.familiesafield.org/pdf/injury_page.pdf

Explain why most of the things the anti gun media and politicians say are just untrue. For example the false "Gun show loophole." that gets thrown about, explain just what really happens (Form 4477, NICS background Check, all applicable laws apply) if someone buys a gun at a gun show. Explain so called "Assault rifles." are highly regulated machine guns and not commonly available and just because a gun may look like a military firearm it does not function the same way.

Use the new found concerns of the public as a foot in the door for gun education. Take someone shooting and introduce them to our side of firearms.

bogus130 · Dec 4, 2015

If at all possible, I try to make the conversation as personal as possible. Especially if I know the person well. I ask them, why should YOU, or ME, or your family not be able to purchase a gun? If I physically placed a gun in your hand and showed you how to operate it, how dangerous would that gun be?
If I am in a public place I'll ask what would YOU do if a person with a gun walked through that door right now. Would you want someone in this room to be armed in order to possibly stop that person?
Usually they at least see the direction of my thinking which I think is half the battle sometimes. They have this fairytale mindset that they don't see the reality of what they are trying to do.

I try not to get into to much law talk because even I don't understand them all that well. I know HQL regs, and the basics of what is legal and not but it ends there.

67temp · Dec 4, 2015

At work I talk openly about firearms and hunting. I have targets and ammo lining my walls.I'm not ashamed of my life style and hope it makes others around me more comfortable. I have vegans, liberals, vegetarians, hippies, and crazy cat ladies at my house all the time. Some get offended when they walk into my den. They seem to shut up when you tell them if they don't force their opinions on me I wont force my opinions on them by cramming a piece of steak in their mouth. You are welcome to your own opinion but it is exactly that, yours not mine. some of them now are good friends but we respect each other.

One of my conversations in the cube farm today....
coworker 1: Why does someone need 1400 bullets and I thought they outlawed cop killer bullets.
me: 1400 isn't really all that much when you can easily go through 500 rounds in one range session.
coworker 1: What? how do go through 500 bullets?
me: (leans out of the cube) hey coworker 2 how long does it take you to go through 500 rounds?
coworker 2: Maybe a couple hours depending on what I'm shooting.
coworker 3 pops up and chimes in: Not if you hit the fun switch, then it's gone in a few minutes. but yeah more less 2-3 hours of plinking.
Coworker 1: ya'll some crazy rednecks

moojersey · Dec 4, 2015

I can think of a few memes that would be fitting for the stupid

BeoBill · Dec 4, 2015

pbharvey said:
It's sad to reach retirement age and still be ignorant.

Early onset Alzheimer's... :sad20:

Pinecone · Dec 4, 2015

DanGuy48 said:
I honestly think it's all part of the plan. When I see the discussions here among knowledgeable people, trying to figure out WTF Maryland firearm laws mean, the confusion has to be deliberate. They don't really intend for any of the laws to fix anything. They just keep piling them on, whenever the opportunity permits, in the hopes that they can crush us under the sheer weight of their vagueness and number.

Don't under estimate the stupidity of the common person and even more so, the elected official.

Most are not SMART enough to design such confusion.

dblas · Dec 4, 2015

RoadDawg said:
Well it's partly the fault of our community...

Unlike the damned liars who sell the BS (coffee shop gun facts etc...) day in and day out on every media they can find. We in the 2A community are quiet about the truth...

Sadly, many of us DO suffer from BGOS. And no, I'm not talking about the "overheard BS when you are on your way to work and don't have the time to correct the idiots" cases such as here in this thread. I'm referring to the many times when folks could take a second to dispell the BS... yet it just doesn't seem to be worth their time and effort to do so.

I know several folks who have avoided talking to me about the subject because although they are friends, they know my strong opinion and position on the 2A. Well some of that changed at another coffee shop yesterday. These same folks, some of them very liberal, are now wanting to know more about it.

One older guy has a daughter who teaches school. He never wanted a gun nor even to talk about guns... Until I reminded him that his daughter is in the same position as others who work in gun free zones. And I pointed out that even he would want a gun if someone ever tried to hurt his daughter. A look of total bewilderment came across his face and lights started coming on in his eyes. Suddenly the truth set in. The transformation from "don't GAF about it" to "oh damn, this shite is REAL!" was simply amazing.

One convert at a time folks... Be polite, civil, calm, firm, direct and above all HONEST AND KNOWLEDGEABLE about it... But, dammit... Talk to folks when you have a legitimate opportunity to educate them.

We do not need "offensive crusaders" but strong leader/educators are a much needed and hard to find commodity. With the current situation as it is... We have a good opportunity to gain a foothold where one was not possible before. Folks are seeking answers. If you have the answer... give it to them. If you don't have a particular answer... Find out for them and let them know. Or give them guidance on where to look for one. But in your efforts... Please don't do anything to alienate any potential future ally.

This, absolutely this.

We have a chance like never before.

Jollyllama · Dec 4, 2015

During the riots in Baltimore I was able to engage a few people on this subject (since we work in Baltimore). People are more or less aware that I shoot but I don't let on too much. People have eaten my venison chili at Christmas ("holiday") parties and know I hunt.

One very liberal nurse stated asking me what kinda of gun she should get to protect herself as she is single. I suggested she come shooting with me. She said she wanted "a cute pink lady gun" and was amazed/ disappointed in the effort required to get one. That opened discussion as to why it is difficult for law abiding citizens to buy handguns and how it is t logical. Something she had never realized before.

It is always nice when you have an opportunity to gently inform others. We need to engage people and inform them. So much misinformation people get through retard television (no offense meant) and social media causes them to form a biased and uneducated opinion.

The desire and ability to protect you and yours is obvious to us, but not everyone considers it until incidents make the news.

jti424 · Dec 5, 2015

Not directly related to a coffee shop story but I have a story of my own.

Was in a LGS yesterday and a group of about 5 young teenagers came in.

Of course there amazement with all the guns was overly enthusiastic, each joking about which gun they would have in zombie situations.

After 15 minutes of gazing they began asking which gun at 18 they could purchase, they were ecstatic when they found out they could purchase a "fun gun" (AR15 style Rifle) at age 18.

Just puts into perspective the gun-less households these kids grow up in. Then these same kids must teach themselves on the responsibilities of ownership.

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Coffee shop gun fallacies

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