HPRB July 7, 2015 Meeting Thread

dgapilot said:

From COMAR,
12.09.01.03

.03 Meetings of the Board.

A. The Board shall meet with sufficient frequency to ensure that the Board decides on a request for review and notifies the applicant of the Board's decision within 120 days of the Board's receipt of the request for review.

B. The Board shall meet at a location accessible to the public.

C. A majority of the Board shall designate the location, time, and date of the meeting.

D. The chairman shall notify Board members of the date and time of a meeting at least 10 days before the date of a scheduled meeting.

E. A quorum of at least three Board members shall be present to decide on a request for review.


The majority of the board sets the time, location, and date of the meeting!
The chairman notifies the members at least 10 days before!

Seems like the board needs to exert their authority. Perhaps they should select a location other than one controlled by MSP. Nothing in COMAR that requires a location associated with MSP. Lots of advantages to that. I'm sure there are any number of public venues that would be willing to host them.

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This is huge, IMO, and seems to prove that the mid-level "authorities" are trying to run this show for ideological/political purposes.

Wait'll the boss gets wind of this

D. The chairman shall notify Board members of the date and time of a meeting at least 10 days before the date of a scheduled meeting.

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Schipperke said:

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Got that right.
I was busy all night, just now reading all this (still 50+ posts behind).

Unreal, had to know something like this would happen.

Anyone else that wants to review the COMAR regarding the permit review board, here is the link
http://www.dsd.state.md.us/COMAR/SubtitleSearch.aspx?search=12.09.01.*

The interesting thing is that like many legal proceedings, there are time limits or windows for what the applicant must do, and when the review board must make a decision or have a hearing. For everyone who has business with them, you should be marking your calendars based on the COMAR requirements. If you haven't been notified of a hearing or decision within the time limits, start raising the roof!

I see the link now, sorry.

holeeefuk.

Day one you say? Why is this so damn hard to get, why is this colossal waste of time NOT happening in 42 or so other states (or more) and there is not mass hysteria and serial murders running around killing everyone?

Montoya32, the link is in the post just above yours. It brings up a menu for the section on the review board. That section is 12.09.01.03

Schipperke said:

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It says notify board members, not the public. It also says a location accessible to the public. It says nothing about notifying the public, from what I can see.

From the COMAR posted, they may be legally safe with those shenanigans.

I agree that is doesn't say anything about public notice, but from the sounds of what went on this evening, the board was just as surprised as the public. Looks to me like the "shenanigans" are being played by those that control the venue, not by the actual board members. That's why I suggested that the board should select a venue not controlled by the State Police. The Handgun Board has access to a web page to past the venue for the public, and there is a requirement for the board to notify anyone with a hearing at any given meeting of where and when that hearing will take place. I suspect many of those that have requested hearings are members of this group, and would gladly post the location if it was not made public on the boards web page.

Even one of the board members that I spoke with was befuddled by this. They told me this has been nothing short of a confusing process since the meetings began. This one drove 4 hours only to find out things were off...

Awesome impromptu gathering of like minded folks though, lol. Had the meeting gone on, we would have been packed in that room like canned sardines.

Apparently the Board and its chairman have authority which has been co-opted by their hosts, the MSP.

Sounds like the board needs to examine its foundation documents, and re-assert its authority.

If I was on the board, I'd be really annoyed at being made to look the fool in front of the citizens whose fate I was appointed to determine.

I'm going to leave this here:




"3. Your Board of County Commissioners customarily conducts hearings on special exceptions in public. The Board decides the uncontested cases in public. However, when someone has appeared to oppose the application, a quorum of the Board retires to deliberate in private. Does the Act apply to the Board's deliberations?

You answered c to question 3 which is CORRECT.

a) No, because the Board is performing a judicial function.
Incorrect. The Board is not part of the Judicial branch.

b) No, because the Act doesn't apply when the Board meets in private.
Incorrect. A quorum of the Board is discussing public business.

c) Yes, because the Act applies to deliberations on special exceptions and other zoning matters no matter what function the Board is performing.
Correct. The Act applies even to a public body performing a quasi-judicial function when the public body is considering special exceptions and other zoning matters.

d) No, because the Board is performing a quasi-judicial function.
Incorrect. The Act applies even to a public body performing a quasi-judicial function when the public body is considering special exceptions and other zoning matters."

One more for good measure:

A public body must give public notice in advance of a meeting governed by the Act. §3-202

Notice is required even if the public body anticipates that the meeting will probably be closed under the Act.

How far in advance?

"The Act requires reasonable advance notice. The General Assembly did not want to preclude a public body from scheduling an emergency meeting on short notice should the need arise. But, even for an emergency meeting, some notice must be given---such as a phone call to the media representatives who normally cover the public body's activities and the posting of a notice on the public body's website."



"The Notice must include:

The date, time, and location of the meeting; and
If appropriate, the fact that all or part of the meeting is expected to be closed."


"The notice should not list a closed meeting before the public meeting. To close a meeting, a public body must first meet in public and vote to recess to a non-public meeting."


***"May enforce rules to ensure that recording a meeting is not disruptive, but it may not bar recording outright."***



"...if members of a public body sign contracts or similar documents during a public meeting, they must advise the public of the action being taken."


"A public body must make certain disclosures about what occurred in the closed session."


"At a minimum, written minutes must reflect:

-Each item considered;
-The action taken with regard to any item; and
-Each recorded vote."


" The Open Meetings Compliance Board (OMCB) is an independent body that issues advisory opinions about the Open Meetings Act. The OMCB consists of three members appointed by the Governor and the Attorney General's Office provides staff support."




"If the court finds that the public body willfully met with knowledge that the meeting was held in violation of the Act, the court may fine the public body up to $250 for the first violation and up to $1,000 for any violation within three years after that. In determining the fine, the court must consider the public body's financial resources and the ability to pay."


"As of October 1, 2013, each public body must designate at least one member, officer, or employee to receive training on the requirements of the(Open Meeting) Act and must notify the Compliance Board of that designation. The designees may satisfy the requirement by completing this online class or an Open Meetings Act class offered by the Maryland Association of Counties or Maryland Municipal League through the Academy for Excellence in Local Governance program."

Abacab said:

It says notify board members, not the public. It also says a location accessible to the public. It says nothing about notifying the public, from what I can see.

From the COMAR posted, they may be legally safe with those shenanigans.

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Agreed.....if I were the chair I would be holding the meetings in the smallest, public accessible room I could find.

LoneRanger said:

Agreed.....if I were the chair I would be holding the meetings in the smallest, public accessible room I could find.

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And that would be a dick move if you are serious, which could easily be overridden by a majority of the Board members that under the regulations designate the location. Besides, with traffic, and driving 5 MPH under the limit in the left hand lane you would probably be late.

Abacab said:

It says notify board members, not the public. It also says a location accessible to the public. It says nothing about notifying the public, from what I can see.

From the COMAR posted, they may be legally safe with those shenanigans.

Click to expand...

Ten days is pretty common language for these type of events. There is a statute that if notice is not given in a reasonable amount of time, it can't be considered an open meeting. Read D , the chairman shall..... Now read the quote from an observer. Think the chairman knows what is going on? This is all typical, with no remarkable recourse. The hearing may have been cancelled because they failed to properly announce, but they're not going to tell anyone that. If a complaint is filed that is was not open, I've seen recourse where everything that was voted on, passed approved is then ordered null and void , and a do over.

By this time the rest of the board members were rolling up to the parking lot including the chairman.. Trust me all of the board members were like "What?!?!?" including the chairman who rushed up from something he had in Virginia earlier in the day. So the Duty Officer was basically explaining again email from the Commander of all the Barracks, not the P Barracks but the commander of all the Barracks (or a region,) is the one that sent an email that the meeting would not be held there.

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If there are shenanigans then the water cooler may be a better location for squirrels. As well as here to toss peanuts openly. Having a board with ultimate power to contradict an administrations decisions at the same address may create strange bed/building fellows and therefore, if in fact they are ... shenanigans.

Thanks to all keeping up on this.

Gryphon said:

And that would be a dick move if you are serious, which could easily be overridden by a majority of the Board members that under the regulations designate the location. Besides, with traffic, and driving 5 MPH under the limit in the left hand lane you would probably be late.

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Absolutely serious....and while the board members can designate the location....most boards and committees I have sat on or chaired usually go along with the chair in such matters.........

I would also push the envelope a step further....item B of the board's regulations states the board shall meet at a location accessible to the public....doesn't say the meeting has to be open to public....just the location where it is being held....that could be interpreted to be the back room of my favorite bar.......

New to the thread but highly interested

Hi just joined. Found the info here very informative.
I applied for my CCW permit in late April and recently received the Disapproved letter. Contacted the MSP trooper and he advised me that the reason was insufficient G&S.
So apparently the new administration hasn't changed much.
I'm planning an informal review, and taking advice in this thread, have requested a complete copy of MSP's file.
Also planning to attend an upcoming Review Board mtg to get better grounded in the process.
And I am an MSI member.
Any other advice in prep for the grueling process ahead of me?
Thanks
Jimboy

Applehd said:

I took a couple pics of the group gathering but failed to ask everyone's permission to post them in this thread... What say ye'?

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You have my permission.

Edit: Now I see you did post it.

Edit 2: Welcome Jimboy! Make sure when you request your HPRB meeting you tell them you want to be present.