Black powder revolver help?

J.nash08 · May 31, 2014

I'm looking at getting a pietta 1858 in .44 caliber. I've found videos on YouTube of people making paper cartridges out of cigarette paper. In the video he isn't using "roundball". He's using a projectile(bullet). When I asked the guy at cabelas he said they only shoot roundball but when I looked at a colt black powder signature series, it came with a bullet mold to make projectiles. What's the answer here, and where can I get the projectiles themselves?

To add to it the roundball dimensions I've been told are .451 and that it'll shave some off, what does that mean for bullets in .420-.430 and such?

http://youtu.be/pC5mwOJ2Khg

coopermania · May 31, 2014

This should keep you busy.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/

iH8DemLibz · May 31, 2014

You will need a ball or projectile that will still fit inside the cylinder after paper is wrapped around it.

Let's say your paper is .002 thick, then two wraps around the ball/projectile would be .008 worth of paper.

Measure your cylinder and subtract .008. You will need that size ball or smaller for your home-growns to work.

You may have a hard time igniting black powder that is wrapped in paper though.

I honed the cylinders on a .44 Dragoon to take/press fit .452 Colt lead bullets.

That will work much better than paper cartridges.

Also, buy an Uberti. Made Mobetta.

Threeband · May 31, 2014

I wouldn't mess with paper cartridges to start out with.

Just get some swaged round balls, like Speer or Hornady.

.451 or .454 shouldn't really matter to start. If .451 causes that desirable little ring to be shaved off, then .454 should be even better. Both will be the same size after they're shaved to fit anyway.

For some crazy reason, the manufacturers all bore the chambers too small, or the barrels too big. No matter what oversize ball you start with, it will be shaved to chamber diameter, which will be too small for the oversize bore.

They've been making them that way since the 1950s, as far as I know. Maybe since the 1830s? Anyway, for match-grade accuracy with cap and ball revolvers, you have to do what iH8DemLibz did:

I honed the cylinders on a .44 Dragoon to take/press fit .452 Colt lead bullets.

I have an 1860 Army that was bored out to .47 caliber. It's ridiculous.

But you don't need to worry about match grade accuracy, at least until your second range trip. For now, just get some round balls, powder, caps, something to seal/lube with (I used wheel bearing grease), a loading stand, and something to pour individual charges into the chambers with.

You can experiment with paper cartridges or conical ball some other time. Hint: you want nitrated paper. Try cigarette paper, or dissolve saltpeter in water or alcohol and soak some appropriate paper.

what does that mean for bullets in .420-.430 and such?

It means they're way too small. Use .451 minimum, until you ream the chambers out to .47 caliber.

dwsjr · May 31, 2014

I have that very model pietta but why bother with the paper? Still have to load through the front of the cylinder and once its fired its a blackened mess any way?

J.nash08 · May 31, 2014

I want to use the paper cartridges because they're much faster loading and don't wanna spend $300 on a conversion cylinder. So where can I get these .452 projectiles(conicles?)

iH8DemLibz · May 31, 2014

J.nash08 said:
I want to use the paper cartridges because they're much faster loading and don't wanna spend $300 on a conversion cylinder. So where can I get these .452 projectiles(conicles?)

Midway USA

Type into search bar: .452 Colt lead bullet.

AntiGun · May 31, 2014

J.nash08 said:
I want to use the paper cartridges because they're much faster loading and don't wanna spend $300 on a conversion cylinder. So where can I get these .452 projectiles(conicles?)

It's really not that much faster. Just get yourself some ready to go loading tubes and pour your powder.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=100089

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=146458

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=94712

I have a conical mold for 44 but I haven't seen any difference in accuracy over ball.

airsporter · May 31, 2014

I believe the original paper cartridges used nitrated paper - so they would burn with the powder.

JSW · May 31, 2014

per previous discussion....http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=14325&page=4

Threeband · May 31, 2014

Paper cartridges won't be faster. That's why nobody uses them. You just have to get your system down.
I know a guy who can reload his cap and ball revolver almost as fast as you could a loading-gate type cartridge gun.

Look at this thread:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=146458&highlight=loading+tubes

Particularly, see this post:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2921481&postcount=60

Get about 100 of these little tubes:

You put a measured charge of 3fg in each tube, and take them to the range in a case box/ammo box.

The guy I refer to who loads so fast uses these or similar tubes. He sets everything out on the bench where he can reach it.

Revolver in loading stand.
Grab tube, pop top with thumb, charge chamber, drop tube in lid of case box.
Repeat for six chambers--- time, about 8 seconds.
Drop a ball in each chamber --- time - maybe 5 seconds.
Seat balls --- time maybe 4 seconds.
He used crisco/beeswax for lube. Had it in a little tub, like a musket cap tin. Used a little hors d'oerve type cheese knife to smear lube in a huge mess all over the face of the cylinder. He lubed and sealed in about 2 seconds that way.

With practice you can cap the nipples in maybe ten seconds or less.

You can easily reload in under 1 minute with a little practice and organization.
I'm estimating about 30 seconds for this guy I used to shoot with, but he was fast, and better organised than I. Those pop-top tubes he used are much better than the rubbery tubes I describes in that thread I told you to read.

You can try paper cartridges someday for fun, but I'll bet you can reload .38 Special on a single-station press just as fast.

Mooseman · May 31, 2014

Threeband, are those centrifuge tubes?

Threeband · May 31, 2014

Mooseman said:
Threeband, are those centrifuge tubes?

Maybe. They're not mine. Anti-gun found them on E-Bay.

The guy I'm talking about, Mike, (with whom I shot in the N-SSA 25 years ago) got his at the pharmacy. He said they were the same tubes drug dealers packaged crack rocks in. I could never find any, and I don't do crack, so I just used the rubbery tubes I describe in my links. This was before the internet.

coopermania · May 31, 2014

J.nash08 said:
I want to use the paper cartridges because they're much faster loading and don't wanna spend $300 on a conversion cylinder. So where can I get these .452 projectiles(conicles?)

Post # 2 they have all the BP supplys you will ever want.

ken792 · May 31, 2014

I just charge from a powder flask. It's quick enough and the 24gr spout seems to be the charge that shoots best in my Colt Navy anyway.

Threeband · May 31, 2014

I used to charge from the flask, but it's a major violation in the N-SSA.
Some kind of pre-charged loading tubes take care of the issue.

The possibility of a spark remaining in a chamber is pretty slim, but I suppose it could happen. Actually, I think there's a very good chance of it happening if paper cartridges are used. Also, if someone left a container full of nitrated paper cartridges on the bench, and a stray spark fell on one, I'll bet there would be some excitement.

When I was a kid, my brother had a half a coffee can full of home made gunpowder ignite under similar conditions. What fun! Flames literally three stories high, my brother, sister, and I running around throwing buckets of water on the fire... Later blank and innocent expressions when Dad wanted to know how the picnic table got all burned up... Good times...

"Christian, thou knowest thou carriest powder about thee. Desire them that carry fire to keep a distance from thee." - wisdom from an earlier age.

AntiGun · May 31, 2014

Mooseman said:
Threeband, are those centrifuge tubes?

Yes, they are.
I started using them after my last lab closed.
Works great.

coopermania · May 31, 2014

Threeband said:
When I was a kid, my brother had a half a coffee can full of home made gunpowder ignite under similar conditions. What fun! Flames literally three stories high, my brother, sister, and I running around throwing buckets of water on the fire... Later blank and innocent expressions when Dad wanted to know how the picnic table got all burned up... Good times..

After I read this I called my brother in Colorado and we laughed for 5 min over some of the stuff we blew up as kids and more as young men. Great Times

Threeband · May 31, 2014

Nowadays a kid drops a Mentos in a Diet Coke and gets a Felony Terrorism Destructive Device Ozone Depletion charge.

Where did 1965 go?

Black powder revolver help?

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