Handgun in the car

Can anybody source me the law regarding this?

I believe it is that weapon has to be locked up and the ammunition/magazine removed?

Depends on intent.

Local within the state?
or
Interstate Travel?

STate law, only to or from the allowed designations or purposes and the handgun itself must be unloaded and in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster, and this only applies to handguns which are not antiques.
(4-203 of the Criminal Law Article).

Fed law is different, but only applies if travelling interstate and if you started in MD and stay in MD it does not apply.

S what's the best way to rationalize a day trip to a neighboring state?

Better off carrying a long gun. (I think)..Novus, Is that correct?

I regularly travel to Virginia on business and plan to get a Utah CCW. I am interested in this thread. I wondered how I would rationalize having a handgun in the car (carried to MD specifications of course).

I'm not at all sure about this, but isn't one's intention to travel to another state a valid reason, the whole federally protected interstate travel thing?

Boondock Saint said:

I'm not at all sure about this, but isn't one's intention to travel to another state a valid reason, the whole federally protected interstate travel thing?

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The valid reason requirement to have a firearm in the car, is only a maryland thing. If you are just taking your firearm for a drive with you say to PA, you just need to keep it locked up, and ammo separated.

Inigoes said:

The valid reason requirement to have a firearm in the car, is only a maryland thing. If you are just taking your firearm for a drive with you say to PA, you just need to keep it locked up, and ammo separated.

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My understanding is that according to the FOPA, it just needs to be 'unloaded' (e.g. filled mag but not inserted into the firearm), and out of reach of the driver - either in the trunk, or in a locked case in a vehicle w/o a trunk. I carry my .45 to VA residences of friends/family in a snap-holster and no mag whatsoever in the gun, with a loaded mag in the 'extra mag pocket' of the holster, and the entire system kept in a backpack in my trunk. I believe this covers me under the federal FOPA rules while in MD because I'm travelling to VA where I'm allowed to carry openly if I choose (and have permission of the homeowners of my destination to have it), and of course once in VA, I can keep it unloaded in any way I choose in the car, as long as it's not being 'carried concealed'. I haven't found anything in MD, VA, or federal law that says anything about keeping anything locked (unless it's in the cabin of the car because you have no trunk), or keeping the ammunition separate (aside from a loaded magazine inserted into the firearm).

Please, if anyone disagrees with my interpretation of the laws, let me know, lest I have my day ruined by a well-intentioned LEO.

While I'm at it - it sounds from what I've read that 'trunk guns' are totally legal in MD as long as either the internal magazine is not loaded, or a loaded external magazine is not inserted in the firearm. So, I could keep a HiPoint 995 in my trunk, and some filled 995 mags in my glove compartment or center console, right? I'm only breaking the law when I insert the loaded mags into the carbine, right?

These really are hypothetical questions - I've already learned that what is actually legal, and what a cop can say/do to ruin your day are two totally different things.

novus collectus said:

Fed law is different, but only applies if travelling interstate and if you started in MD and stay in MD it does not apply.

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The way this was phrased made me think there might be a requirement you not return to your home state the same day, that is, "stay (overnight)" in the other state. But I guess you meant "remain" in Maryland, that is, not leave the state at all, thus you should be covered while on a day trip.

Maryland's saving grace is that the state line is always so close by.

If your going to another state where you hold a CCW, the law changes when you cross the state line.

When I go to PA, my gun is in my trunk, unloaded until I get to the state line. Once I cross the state line, I take it out, load it and carry it normally. On the way back, just unload it at the state line and put it in the trunk.

Federal law is designed mostly to protect you when traveling through FID states. States like NY don't allow you to touch a gun in their state without a FID. This includes out of state travelers.

Threeband said:

S what's the best way to rationalize a day trip to a neighboring state?

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Repeat after me, "I was intending on doing some informal target practice when in that state (either at a commerical range, private club, or on a friend's property)"

Bigdtc said:

Better off carrying a long gun. (I think)..Novus, Is that correct?

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As long as the long gun does not have any ammunition in it's chamber or magazine, there is no state law against there one being in or on your vehicle I am aware of (except on public school property).

I other words, I believe you can have a long gun as a trunk gun as long as it is not loaded.

....I am not a lawyer.

how many threads are there devoted to this subject?

sand86 said:

I regularly travel to Virginia on business and plan to get a Utah CCW. I am interested in this thread. I wondered how I would rationalize having a handgun in the car (carried to MD specifications of course).

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Please remember, the handgun possession/transport law of MD excludes antiques. This means any handgun regardless of if it fires modern ammo or not made before 1899 or any replica of one that fires cap and ball is not illegal under 4-203 to possess or transport under any circumstance listed.

There may be local laws you have to consider, but generally speaking by state law you can have an unloaded antique handgun that is a cartridge firing revolver made before 1899, a semi auto made before 1899 (if you can afford one), or unloaded modern made cap and ball revolver in your car. But I am not a lawyer.

There are plenty of self defense and target shooting handguns that are classified as "antique" which are available and some are affordable and some pre-1899 are actually very..very cheap (but the really cheap ones will need work and are generally only good for extremely close distances).

futureseabee4usn said:

how many threads are there devoted to this subject?

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I call it, "practice".

Threeband said:

The way this was phrased made me think there might be a requirement you not return to your home state the same day, that is, "stay (overnight)" in the other state. But I guess you meant "remain" in Maryland, that is, not leave the state at all, thus you should be covered while on a day trip.

Maryland's saving grace is that the state line is always so close by.

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Yes, remain in MD as in never travelling accross the state line or leaving the state of MD.

Ethan83 said:

My understanding is that according to the FOPA, it just needs to be 'unloaded' (e.g. filled mag but not inserted into the firearm), and out of reach of the driver - either in the trunk, or in a locked case in a vehicle w/o a trunk. I carry my .45 to VA residences of friends/family in a snap-holster and no mag whatsoever in the gun, with a loaded mag in the 'extra mag pocket' of the holster, and the entire system kept in a backpack in my trunk. I believe this covers me under the federal FOPA rules while in MD because I'm travelling to VA where I'm allowed to carry openly if I choose (and have permission of the homeowners of my destination to have it), and of course once in VA, I can keep it unloaded in any way I choose in the car, as long as it's not being 'carried concealed'. I haven't found anything in MD, VA, or federal law that says anything about keeping anything locked (unless it's in the cabin of the car because you have no trunk), or keeping the ammunition separate (aside from a loaded magazine inserted into the firearm).

Please, if anyone disagrees with my interpretation of the laws, let me know, lest I have my day ruined by a well-intentioned LEO.

While I'm at it - it sounds from what I've read that 'trunk guns' are totally legal in MD as long as either the internal magazine is not loaded, or a loaded external magazine is not inserted in the firearm. So, I could keep a HiPoint 995 in my trunk, and some filled 995 mags in my glove compartment or center console, right? I'm only breaking the law when I insert the loaded mags into the carbine, right?

These really are hypothetical questions - I've already learned that what is actually legal, and what a cop can say/do to ruin your day are two totally different things.

Click to expand...

Well....you seem like you really do got it, but there are two caveats I must mention.

One, there was a letter Mark Bowen from the Attorney General's office supposedly wrote in response to an inquiry which was posted on a now defunct message board which if authentic stated that if you start off in MD, then until you leave MD you must follow MD handgun transport law for handguns, but if you are comming into MD accross state lines, you can use either MD law or FOPA.
Basically the letter said IIRC that the only way you can transport to another state like VA when starting in MD is for one of the apporved MD purposes or locations, so for carrying for personal protection unless it was a property you own in VA was not included, but if you were also planning on doing some informal target practice while in VA (, wink, wink, nudge, nudge), then that should cover the purpose part.

As far as a trunk long gun or trunk antique handgun, this is a definite gray area for being loaded for so many reasons. The hunting/poaching statute says you cannot have a loaded rifle, shotgun or handgun (for handguns the hunting statute does not apply if you are transporting by the handgun transport/possession statute) with a loaded chamber or loaded mag. But there are soooooo many things to think of when reading this statute.
One, does it apply to always and not just when hunting/poaching? If it does, then the police officers all over the state with a shotgun in their patrol car which is loaded are breaking the law because there is no exception for police officers.
Two, does it mean magazines inserted or integral to the rifle, shotgun or handgun? If you parse the sentence the impression to me is that it only applies to mags inserted in the rifles, shotgun or handgun.
Three, it only mentions magazines and says nothing about stripper clips, speed loaders, en-block clips, moon clips, feeder strips (metal or rubber), etc., which is another reason I think number two only applies to internal or inserted mags.

Just an additional note on old/antique guns as a practical, not a legal matter. Remember that most of those antique handguns are unsafe either through age or inherently by design. Many, if not all, are very succeptible to drop firing if the hammer is left on a loaded chamber. I just bring it up because there was a case out west a few years ago where a guy had a black powder revolver under the seat and he was was vaccuming out his car. He forgot about the gun, and his six-year old niece who was with him found it under the seat, picked it up, dropped it, and it went off, killing her. So whether its legal or not, and I'm not getting into the legalities, be careful with those old guns.

zoostation said:

Just an additional note on old/antique guns as a practical, not a legal matter. Remember that most of those antique handguns are unsafe either through age or inherently by design. Many, if not all, are very succeptible to drop firing if the hammer is left on a loaded chamber. I just bring it up because there was a case out west a few years ago where a guy had a black powder revolver under the seat and he was was vaccuming out his car. He forgot about the gun, and his six-year old niece who was with him found it under the seat, picked it up, dropped it, and it went off, killing her. So whether its legal or not, and I'm not getting into the legalities, be careful with those old guns.

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One reason of many I am an Iver Johnson fan is because they have the safety features everyone copied later like the transfer bar for the hammer and the trigger safety (on the hammerless models). An Iver Johnson top break (with the IJ brand name on it) will not fire in any way if dropped even on a loaded chamber. But in any case, the easiest safety feature for any revolver new or old is the leaving one empty chamber that the hammer rests on.

Iver Johnsons also happen to be one of the cheaper varieties of antique revolvers.