Drive to remove MSP as POC for NICS!

mxrider · May 1, 2013

Ok, I'm tired of spinning wheels with conflicting information regarding the whole 3 day Brady rule and when that begins. I've seen and heard some that say the 3 days begins at the initial transfer to the MSP and I have also personally received emails that the 3 days begins once the NICS check has been run.

So, with all that being said, I want to start a drive to remove the MSP from the NICS process alltogether. That way, there will be no question on anything. FFL's will be able to contact NICS directly upon purchase, then after 7 days of waiting for MSP, they can release their firearms with no concerns of anything.

Now, I am willing to do a lot of legwork on this, but will need help from my fellow MDS members. My first step is to contact the ATF in Baltimore to find out if this is something that the ATF has the ability to revoke their authority or if this is something that has to go through MD legislative channels. I am hoping the first option is the case as that will be easiest(not easy).

More later.

Ab_Normal · May 1, 2013

The ATF is the first stop. They are the ones who approve whether or not a state agency can act as the POC for the FBI NICS check. Wierd huh?

The nice thing is that if the ATF sees no need to help resolve the wait time issues with Md's POC then they would be complicit in denying people their rights.

TurkeyTrack · May 1, 2013

ATF Public Affairs 202 648-8500. That seems to be the fastest way to get their attention.

Boondock Saint · May 1, 2013

TurkeyTrack said:
ATF Public Affairs 202 648-8500. That seems to be the fastest way to get their attention.

Thanks for your hard work. :thumbsup:

Boondock Saint · May 1, 2013

I called the number above and spoke with someone who, while nice, seemed unconvinced that this was an ATF matter. He kept suggesting that I contact a state representative or the Governor's office. Finally, he gave me a number for the Firearms and Explosives Industry Division - 202-648-7090.

obnoxious2 · May 1, 2013

Boondock Saint said:
I called the number above and spoke with someone who, while nice, seemed unconvinced that this was an ATF matter. He kept suggesting that I contact a state representative or the Governor's office. Finally, he gave me a number for the Firearms and Explosives Industry Division - 202-648-7090.

They're just kicking the can around in circles. Sort of like our federal budget

04RWon · May 1, 2013

Boondock Saint said:
I called the number above and spoke with someone who, while nice, seemed unconvinced that this was an ATF matter. He kept suggesting that I contact a state representative or the Governor's office. Finally, he gave me a number for the Firearms and Explosives Industry Division - 202-648-7090.

Lol yeah, call the Governor lol hahhahahahaaaaaa

Well i emailed Del Smigiel last night. Ill be callin him today. Ill help you out as much as i can before I move.

gtodave · May 1, 2013

I thought we were supposed to have lawsuits filed on this by now.

Shazam · May 1, 2013

Now what if a few hundred more Maryland gun owners suddenly contact the ATF and complained? Would that get their attention?

mxrider · May 1, 2013

I don't have the ability to call now, but the Baltimore ATF phone number is 443-965-2000. Gary Bangs is the Director of Industry Operations who is in charge of the ATF reps that oversee the FFL's. I sent an email 2 days ago to him with no reply yet as I only had the generic email address and not his specificially.

04RWon · May 1, 2013

mxrider said:
I don't have the ability to call now, but the Baltimore ATF phone number is 443-965-2000. Gary Bangs is the Director of Industry Operations who is in charge of the ATF reps that oversee the FFL's. I sent an email 2 days ago to him with no reply yet as I only had the generic email address and not his specificially.

This number is not good. Gary Bangs does not work in that office.

04RWon · May 1, 2013

Boondock Saint said:
I called the number above and spoke with someone who, while nice, seemed unconvinced that this was an ATF matter. He kept suggesting that I contact a state representative or the Governor's office. Finally, he gave me a number for the Firearms and Explosives Industry Division - 202-648-7090.

Just called that number. Got transferred, used ext 5. The lady i spoke with is going to have a specialist call me back.

Also left a message with industry operations for Baltimore, 410 965 2120.

mxrider · May 1, 2013

04RWon said:
This number is not good. Gary Bangs does not work in that office.

grrrr, that's what is listed on the ATF Baltimore Field office's website......

http://www.atf.gov/field/baltimore/index.html

04RWon · May 1, 2013

mxrider said:
grrrr, that's what is listed on the ATF Baltimore Field office's website......

http://www.atf.gov/field/baltimore/index.html

It happens buddy.

I still made quite a few calls to the ATF, just waiting for call backs or to get the feeling i need to bug them again.

I will say this. This idea may have ground. If the ATF sees MSP telling ffl's to violate the law maybe, just maybe, they will say "yep, your to dumb to handle this"

04RWon · May 1, 2013

Just spoke with the ATF. I got the phone call from 202-648-9999. He confirmed that MSP is correct, after 7 days the firearms may be released. He explained that MD law is more restrictive than Federal so as long as the FFL is compliant with MD, he is ok. He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too. He would not give me his name, but that is the number I got the call from. I do know he is the Specialist because I was transferred to that persons voicemail when I called 202 648 7090.

He also said this is all compliant within the Brady Law. He wont give anything on official letterhead because its already printed in the laws.

platoonDaddy · May 1, 2013

Again kicking the can down the road. My senator Edward R. Reilly also kicked the can down the road. All bull shit.

Mooseman · May 1, 2013

I would love to see this get traction.

zoostation · May 1, 2013

I understand and appreciate your efforts but I can only say good luck. New Jersey is taking 4-6 months to return approvals on handgun purchases and they aren't stopping them.

Even if it is do-able (and I don't think it is) I doubt you'll see a federal agency ultimately controlled by the Obama administration conduct a major alteration to a democratic state's gun control process in order to protect our Second Amendment rights.

Not trying to be negative, and I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world on this, I just wouldn't invest too much into this if it were me.

anil · May 1, 2013

04RWon said:
He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too..

Could you clarify?
This is regarding if the firearm is transfered (after 7 days) and then NICS/MD Police determine that the person was prohibited/denied?

jonnyl · May 1, 2013

This sounds like the Maryland example.

From Here:http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/brady-law.html#comply-brady-law

Q: If a State is acting as a NICS point of contact (POC) and State law has requirements regarding the amount of time that a licensee must wait before transferring a firearm after contacting the State, should the licensee comply with the State requirements, the Federal requirements, or both?

The licensee must comply with both State and Federal requirements.

Example: State D is acting as a POC for NICS checks. State law requires a background check prior to the transfer of any firearm. State law also requires the licensee to wait 10 days to get a response from the State. The licensee must contact the State POC for a NICS check and a State background check. The licensee must comply with both Federal and State law by waiting 10 days for a response prior to transferring the firearm. If the licensee has not received a response from the State after 10 days, he or she may transfer the firearm.

Drive to remove MSP as POC for NICS!

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