Merlin
Ultimate Member
Remember, the law said "enclosed holster", not any holster. I think the idea behind the law the gun besides being unload should not be easily accessible. Having it on your side in a typical holster it is very accessible.
Md Handgun permit interview
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Remember, the law said "enclosed holster", not any holster. I think the idea behind the law the gun besides being unload should not be easily accessible. Having it on your side in a typical holster it is very accessible.
Define "enclosed holster"?
oh wait, there is a thread on that http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=518649
Once this stay business is out of the way. Md will be forced to accept shall issue, and OC/CC.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
Mr H
Banana'd
As I've stated before, I would be very happy with CC-only, at least as a first stage.
MDers are not really ready IMO for OC as the norm.
Baby steps.
Mr H
Banana'd
There's plenty of good information in the "How to Apply..." thread.
But, as esq said, you may want to hold off and let the the advance guard beat the bushes for a while, until we see where the cases proceed.
In any event, glad to have you involved.
Our situations are different. Urban/Suburban versus Rural.
4-203 does allow both when a permit is granted.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
I hope they go full OC . I will only CC but it would be nice not to have to worry about the butt of a gun that may pop out from time to time.
A holster with a thumb break snapped closed is an enclosed holster.
Mr H
Banana'd
Point taken (re: urban/suburban/rural). But, as we are ruled by the "Leftist Triangle", I would think that will be the guiding force.
As for mode? I expect change to that (along with new TPM rules, transport, and others).
SRD
R.I.P.
This what I recieved when I asked in an email,note the bold part.
Dear Mr. D****,
The term “enclosed holster” is not defined in statute or regulation.
There have been two Opinions of the Attorney General and one Maryland Court of Appeals decision referring to the term. I quote the relevant portions below:
Term "enclosed holster" used in paragraph (b) (5) means a holster so designed as to restrict in some way access to the handgun so that a fastening device or closure has to be opened, released, or removed before the weapon can be exposed or freed from the holster and made immediately available for use. 57 Op. Att'y Gen. 502 (1972).
The nature of an enclosed case within the contemplation of the statute should be considered in the light of the purpose of the statute to transport the guns in a secure manner, deny easy access to them and render them safe and harmless during transit. In our opinion, any type of closed case or receptacle that would insure carrying out the statutory purpose would constitute a sufficient compliance. 58 Op. Atty Gen. Md. 375 (1973).
It could hardly have been the legislative intent to permit guns to be carried in an unfastened sack when it used the language "carried in an enclosed case or enclosed holster." While this language may not require a customary gun case or holster, it does require more than an unfastened sack. Jordan v. State, 24 Md. App. 267, 274, 330 A.2d 496, 501 (1975).
Mark H. Bowen
Assistant Attorney General
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:18 PM
To: LCU@mdsp.org
Subject: Definition of enclosed holster
Under Md.Criminal Law 4-203 (Wearing,carrying,or transporting handgun)
Can you please tell me what Md. considers an enclosed holster or perhaps tell me where to look in the Annoted Code?
Thank You,
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
Heck, the Trooper talked to my Ex, who isn't exactly sweetness and light....... According to the Trooper, she opposed my application outright, but the Trooper considered the source and when she could NOT attest to any dangerous behavior or anything else untoward (apart from not liking me very much) he blew it off as what one would expect to hear from an unhappy Ex.
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned," spoken by Zara in Act III, Scene VIII, The Mourning Bride (1697), by William Congreve.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
Do you know for sure? I don't know that I would want to take the chance of getting arrested with a gun sitting next to me in my car with only a thumb break strap. I'm not sure the MSP would agree with that.
Enclosed to me is you can't see or touch the gun at all when in it's enclosed holster or case. I would think if you can see and touch the gun when in the holster, how can it be considered to be enclosed?
Merlin
Ultimate Member
Years ago I remember the word the law used was "secured" and at some point they replaced "secured" with "enclosed".
So at one time years ago the law said; "The gun had to be in a secured holster or case."
So at one time years ago the law said; "The gun had to be in a secured holster or case."
Merlin
Ultimate Member
And that's what and how I think any good investigator will approach anyone they talk to.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
great info. Then we also have to consider how each trooper interprets the laws. I bet if you were to ask 10 troopers there thoughts on what is or is not considered a enclosed holster you will get at least 5 different answers.
This is one of those things I think it is better to be safe then sorry. Because if a LEO arrested you because of their interpretation of the law, you may by found innocent in the loge run, but you will be made to run down that LONG RUN.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
The Jordan and other cases make another point well worth repeating, viz., that the burden is on YOU to prove that you are within the exception, e.g., carrying the handgun to the range, in a proper holster etc., otherwise the ban on carrying will be applied:
"In the Maryland handgun statute, the separately designated exceptions included in the statute operate to relieve an accused of criminal responsibility for the proscribed acts contained in the provision. Appellant concedes that under the handgun statute the burden is upon the accused to prove himself as being within a particular exception." Roos v. State, 45 Md.App. 21, 410 A.2d 1113 Md.App., 1980, citing Jordan v. State, 24 Md.App. 267, 330 A.2d 496 (1975). See also Sproates v. State, 58 Md.App. 547, 473 A.2d 1289 Md.App.,1984.
goalie098
Trigger Monkey
Okay I had my interview yesterday. I have to say it was a very positive experience. Trooper V was professional and friendly. I was asked most all of the question others have been asked including some questions bout my Photography business. She was supportive of people having and carrying a firearm and even said it's a constitutional right. She did ask me about my Utah permit and why I have that. We also discussed places I travel and how I would secure transport the weapon. We did discussed what firearms I might carry as well. she asked about having the weapon in a vehicle when I need and how it is secured at home. After the interview we talked about people having training and things like that. Both of us were MPs in the Army and we swapped some stories about that as well. So maybe the bc we were both MPs,I am a former LEO, and a business owner it made my interview a little smoother. But, all in all I think they were very professional. She did say they have six troopers working these rather than the normal one during all this.
Most importantly through all this; be professional and courteous and 99% of the time they will be too. We all have to remember they are just taking the report.
Mike
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
Did you proffer a G&S reason? Btw your interview sounds much like mine. I agree completely about the importance of courtesy -- the golden rule applies here too
eyesinpines
Active Member
- Mar 4, 2011
- 257
I still find it amazing that a friend of mine [who also posts on this forum] actually had a visit from a State Trooper at his HOME without calling for any prior appointment or anything...just drove up and they did the interview at the kitchen table!
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