CCW ?

[Blaster229]

Breath test, Blood test , walk the line heel to toe and say the alphabet test..

While being armed as a Wear and carry permit holder? Let's keep scope of the thread.

 

[montoya32]

Name Taken, you are referring to the MVA laws as to the definition of being under the influence. It does not quantify, to my knowledge, what they consider as under the influence is but in speaking to the higher ups at MSP, they consider any consumption to be a violation of this law to include a sip, their words not mine.

As we all know, the MSP has the latitude it would seem to be able to interpret the law any way they see fit. They can even make shit up and get away with it. They redefine the english language and no one can do a thing about it. The MSP are a sad excuse for a law enforcement agency and need to stop playing politics and start just enforcing the laws as written and not as they want.

I'll drink to that.

 

[Abacab]

Might want to reexamine who you question, I happen to know the law that I teach in my classes.

That is probably why you are wrong, because you keep listening to the wrong people. As I said before, I have been doing this a day or two and I won't pass on information that I don't know to be fact. The statute I quoted should be proof enough for you. Stay in your lane and don't post what you don't know.

Fact? We are supposed to believe a 'some dude' type story?

Sorry, I am questioning you. I am not afraid either. You're wrong.

Any more keyboard commando type stuff you want to dish out?

 

[Schipperke]

While being armed as a Wear and carry permit holder? Let's keep scope of the thread.

If the statute is "under the influence", exactly.

 

[redeemed.man]

Don't know who told you that but it is absolutely incorrect. While carrying a firearm in Maryland you can not have so much as a sip of alcohol. You can hang out in a bar though or carry a sealed container of alcohol in a vehicle if you so desire.

No argument about it, you can not even take a sip of alcohol while carrying a firearm in Maryland.

Can you provide a cite to the specific law? Not disagreeing but I believe Jack McCauley said something different previously. I may remember it incorrectly.

In any event drinking while carrying is not a great choice in my opinion legal or not.

 

[redeemed.man]

Certainly


Maryland Public Safety Code Ann. 5-314

A person who holds a permit may not wear, carry or transport a handgun while the person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

I am pretty sure some level of drinking can take place prior to one being under the influence. YMMV

 

[Straightshooter]

In truth... there are probably many things upon which we agree...

However, internet conversation is not a good place to find that out. There is only written words to go on and often those words are misinterpreted.

But... thanks for the note anyway.

I'd take that beer, but I'm not sure we're allowed to drink while viewing this thread.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[RoadDawg]

I'd take that beer, but I'm not sure we're allowed to drink while viewing this thread.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapakeg

So ya got my joke...

 

[3rdRcn]

I'd welcome the settlement honestly.

Under the influence has been defined in other statutes. Factor in legislative intent and a "lay person" reading of the law not to mention a expert witness or two and I'd gladly walk away with the pay day for what you say might be a misapplication of the law.

I'd not condoning anyone drinking while armed. But the burden according to the law is certainly higher then a sip.

Like I said, let us know how you make out in court. I for one am not gooing to challenge the MSP in this state on their interpretation of anything, more because I don't have as much money as them to take it to court than anything else.

Fact? We are supposed to believe a 'some dude' type story?

Sorry, I am questioning you. I am not afraid either. You're wrong.

Any more keyboard commando type stuff you want to dish out?

Guess you didn't see the statute I posted, might wanna look in the mirror for that keyboard commando.

I am pretty sure some level of drinking can take place prior to one being under the influence. YMMV

According to the Major that was speaking it was passed that even a sip would be considered a violation of the law. I tend to agree with the posts here about it taking more to be considered "under the influence", I am not the one that is going to test it though and my post was a caution to those that seem to think it is okay to drink while carrying or posted that there is no law against it.

I value my ability to carry my weapon and anyone who doesn't or has the money to do so, should take a poke at getting a definitive legal action to determine what the MSP can or can't consider under the influence while carrying a handgun.

 

[redeemed.man]

Like I said, let us know how you make out in court. I for one am not gooing to challenge the MSP in this state on their interpretation of anything, more because I don't have as much money as them to take it to court than anything else.



Guess you didn't see the statute I posted, might wanna look in the mirror for that keyboard commando.



According to the Major that was speaking it was passed that even a sip would be considered a violation of the law. I tend to agree with the posts here about it taking more to be considered "under the influence", I am not the one that is going to test it though and my post was a caution to those that seem to think it is okay to drink while carrying or posted that there is no law against it.

I value my ability to carry my weapon and anyone who doesn't or has the money to do so, should take a poke at getting a definitive legal action to determine what the MSP can or can't consider under the influence while carrying a handgun.

I agree it is a horrible idea to drink while carrying but I also agree that MSP would be ripe for a lawsuit if arresting someone for a sip of alcohol. The reality is that most law enforcement encounters throughout the state are with local and county agencies not with MSP. Someone would have to actually be under the influence to be stupid enough to get caught or announce they are carrying while drinking. If so they deserve an arrest.

 

[Pinecone]

Yes, and we all know that there are MSP personnel that will state without a doubt that a loaded magazine is the same as the loaded gun. And even the MSP site states that certain firearms are banned or not banned due to "cosmetic similarity" when the AG has put in writing that "cosmetic similarity" is NOT a criteria for a copy.

MSP does NOT interpret the law, MSP enforces the law. The AG and staff, and the courts interpret law. The MSP could arrest you, but unless the AG and staff agree with their position, there will be no prosecution. And if there is prosecution, the court will be the final say on what the law says.

And having a statute that gives such nebulous guidance, where there is firm guidance in other parts of the law, is ripe for the courts to rule that the nebulous guidance is not enforceable.

Oh, and BTW, if you are such an expert and teaching this, you might want to get it straight, COMAR is NOT law. COMAR is REGULATIONS based on the law. Law is passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. COMAR is written by the appropriate agency to set up how that law will be enforced.

 

[redeemed.man]

Yes, and we all know that there are MSP personnel that will state without a doubt that a loaded magazine is the same as the loaded gun. And even the MSP site states that certain firearms are banned or not banned due to "cosmetic similarity" when the AG has put in writing that "cosmetic similarity" is NOT a criteria for a copy.

MSP does NOT interpret the law, MSP enforces the law. The AG and staff, and the courts interpret law. The MSP could arrest you, but unless the AG and staff agree with their position, there will be no prosecution. And if there is prosecution, the court will be the final say on what the law says.

And having a statute that gives such nebulous guidance, where there is firm guidance in other parts of the law, is ripe for the courts to rule that the nebulous guidance is not enforceable.

Oh, and BTW, if you are such an expert and teaching this, you might want to get it straight, COMAR is NOT law. COMAR is REGULATIONS based on the law. Law is passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. COMAR is written by the appropriate agency to set up how that law will be enforced.

One small correction the Attorney General in Maryland would not prosecute it would be local States Attorney's.

 

[CypherPunk]

There are precedents and perhaps laws (I haven't checked) about how a term is interpreted if it isn't defined in one section of law or regulation (public safety), but is defined in another (motor vehicles).

I haven't searched for them, but they would be interesting to read. Maybe our lawyers can help.

Three things are for certain.

The bar for a guilty verdict in a negligence case is a preponderance of evidence. The bar for a guilty verdict in a murder or manslaughter case is a much higher beyond a reasonable doubt.

The MSP can suspend or revoke your permit for almost any reason.

Having consumed any amount of alcohol prior to a lawful self defense shooting is not going to help you in any way. Drink and carry is just not a good idea.

 

[Straightshooter]

There are precedents and perhaps laws (I haven't checked) about how a term is interpreted if it isn't defined in one section of law or regulation (public safety), but is defined in another (motor vehicles).

I haven't searched for them, but they would be interesting to read. Maybe our lawyers can help.

Three things are for certain.

The bar for a guilty verdict in a negligence case is a preponderance of evidence. The bar for a guilty verdict in a murder or manslaughter case is a much higher beyond a reasonable doubt.

The MSP can suspend or revoke your permit for almost any reason.

Having consumed any amount of alcohol prior to a lawful self defense shooting is not going to help you in any way. Drink and carry is just not a good idea.

And IMO this is how a good instructor would approach the subject.

Not the "A friend of a friend's 2nd cousin talked to the janitor at the MSP and he said that the Major told him.........so now I'm teaching it as law because, after all, I am an instructor"

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Ouch!

 

[Blaster229]

And IMO this is how a good instructor would approach the subject.

Not the "A friend of a friend's 2nd cousin talked to the janitor at the MSP and he said that the Major told him.........so now I'm teaching it as law because, after all, I am an instructor"

He said this "According to the Major that was speaking it was passed that even a sip would be considered a violation of the law."

Not sure where you get friend's 2nd cousin talked to the janitor at the MSP.

Pretty much straight from a horse's mouth.

 

[3rdRcn]

And IMO this is how a good instructor would approach the subject.

Not the "A friend of a friend's 2nd cousin talked to the janitor at the MSP and he said that the Major told him.........so now I'm teaching it as law because, after all, I am an instructor"

Or I am teaching it as law because it is in the public safety statute that specifically states you can't be under the influence, the sip part I would agree is an ambiguous statement from the conversation here. I will be adjusting the teaching to include drink at your own risk and have plenty of money for an attorney to fight it.

 

[3rdRcn]

He said this "According to the Major that was speaking it was passed that even a sip would be considered a violation of the law."

Not sure where you get friend's 2nd cousin talked to the janitor at the MSP.

Pretty much straight from a horse's mouth.

His grasp of the english language is not very good from previous conversations with him.

 

[redeemed.man]

Or I am teaching it as law because it is in the public safety statute that specifically states you can't be under the influence, the sip part I would agree is an ambiguous statement from the conversation here. I will be adjusting the teaching to include drink at your own risk and have plenty of money for an attorney to fight it.

Sounds like a plan. No matter what the law is it is a horrible idea to drink while carrying. Especially in a place like MD.

 

[3rdRcn]

Oh, and BTW, if you are such an expert and teaching this, you might want to get it straight, COMAR is NOT law. COMAR is REGULATIONS based on the law. Law is passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. COMAR is written by the appropriate agency to set up how that law will be enforced.

You lost me on this, so what you are saying is that the annotated code of maryland is not the law and you should disregard what it says because it isn't the law? That all lawyers who refer to this for legal briefings etc. should throw their COMAR library away because it isn't what the law says and therefore makes them useless?