No HQL for pregnant woman?

[Storm40]

No. Obstetricians get sued for EVERYTHING. It's the lawyers that make them like that.

This is a valid viewpoint I hadn't previously considered. Also, Occam's Razor tells me it's very likely true, too!

 

[ibang1]

The "Doctor" is an anti 2A A$$. If the US Army will let its' pregnant , yes PREGNANT, Doctors (yes more then one) shoot the Q course, what does yours know that .gov doesn't?

Good luck having time for the class after the bundle of joy comes

I was thinking the same. I don't remember kicking a pregnant girl off the range or even asking if anyone was pregnant and couldn't shoot.

 

[Lou45]

I have researched the topic of pregnant women shooting in the past. I do not believe it is a problem. The risks with lead are laughable. I have done lead tests on guys who shoot ridiculous amounts rounds and cast their own bullets and they have been very low. A single shot should not be an issue. I am not an expert on neonatology, so don't take this as gospel. Do your own research.

Teratos, I do believe your assessment of lead exposure to the unborn fetus is highly incorrect. The airborn lead is absorbed into the bloodstream via the capillaries in the skin and sometimes is deposited in certain areas of the body more so than others, ultimate causing a mild to moderate disproportionate weight distribution within the body when the baby grows into a young adult shortly after puberty, usually located in the organs (more often the brain) and/or extremities. To properly diagnose this problem is to do a lead count of the blood and weigh each portion of the body (head and the extremities) separately and compare those results to non infected individuals of the same weight. One of the most common symptoms of previous excessive lead exposure in young adults is the frequent acquisition of speeding tickets due to the excessive lead deposits in the right foot. Gotcha'.

 

[woodstock]

Doctor said NO live fire... NONE! So any kind of live fire is out of the question. I don't get what is hard to understand about that. Unless one of you are a doctor and can advise us that it's perfectly ok then that would change things. I was hoping there was another safety class that doesn't require any kind of live firing but would still qualify for the HQL. We're not risking something because some guy on the internet said it was ok.

We talked about it and she decided that she's just going to wait to get her HQL.

good decision. while much emphasis has been on the lead exposure and how it could affect the developing fetus, in all stages of development, the somsensory system is at risk in many ways. never mind the potential lead exposure, imagine the trauma to a very fragile hearing system. even one round, unless from a .22 suppressed using "quiet" ammo, the risk is still too high. i would suggest you do the entire lecture component, complete with lots of dry-fire, and once the child is born and AFTER mom stops nursing, do the live fire. by that time with adequate dry fire practice she could be a dirty harriette from the get go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatosensory_system https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...age&fr=yfp-t-320&va=somsensory+system+hearing

i have some knowledge in this area, not a MD but... take it for what it's worth.

 

[danb]

I'm not trying to argue that she would or wouldn't be exposed to anything but I'm not going to advise my wife to go against the doctors orders/advice. I'm not the one that went to medical school and I'm paying them lots of money because they're specialist in their field. Why pay that kind of money to see a doctor if I'm just going to ignore what they tell me? I was just trying to figure out if there was another way for her to get her HQL without doing any kind of live fire. There are some good suggestions but it doesn't seem worth it to me to ignore the risk the doctor advised us about even if they are low.

It's not a "necessary" thing for her to get her HQL. We have guns in the house so if she needs to defend herself she's able to. Its really just something she wants and she's not exactly a patient kind of person. If we can't figure out a way to do it without doing a live fire then she's probably just going to have to wait until after the pregnancy is over.

Thanks for the suggestions

The Texas hunter safety does not require live fire, is 100% online, and has been accepted as HQL training based on the HQL thread. See previous posts in the thread.


Also, if any of those firearms are regulayed and already hers, but not registered because they were bought out of state, they can be used. I am not sure what MSP is requiring insofar as proof.

 

[Pinecone]

I have researched the topic of pregnant women shooting in the past. I do not believe it is a problem. The risks with lead are laughable. I have done lead tests on guys who shoot ridiculous amounts rounds and cast their own bullets and they have been very low. A single shot should not be an issue. I am not an expert on neonatology, so don't take this as gospel. Do your own research.

And there are many IH studies on lead exposure from shooting and the exposures for non-range employees are quite low.

 

[Pinecone]

Doctor said NO live fire... NONE! So any kind of live fire is out of the question. I don't get what is hard to understand about that. Unless one of you are a doctor and can advise us that it's perfectly ok then that would change things. I was hoping there was another safety class that doesn't require any kind of live firing but would still qualify for the HQL. We're not risking something because some guy on the internet said it was ok.

We talked about it and she decided that she's just going to wait to get her HQL.

Uuhhhh, teratos IS a doctor.

I am an Industrial Hygienist, which is profession that deals with exposures to hazardous materials and the consequences, and the prevention of that exposure.

There is NO WAY firing a single round of .22 is going to cause issues.

 

[Pinecone]

IIRC the pistol purchase had to take place prior to 10/1/13 to be training exempt, not own a pistol made before that date.....

Nope, the law only says PREVIOUSLY PURCHASED a regulated firearm.

So a C&R pistol is a regulated firearm and can be purchased after 10/1/2013 (no HQL required) and then qualify as exemption.

 

[Pinecone]

Teratos, I do believe your assessment of lead exposure to the unborn fetus is highly incorrect. The airborn lead is absorbed into the bloodstream via the capillaries in the skin and sometimes is deposited in certain areas of the body more so than others, ultimate causing a mild to moderate disproportionate weight distribution within the body when the baby grows into a young adult shortly after puberty, usually located in the organs (more often the brain) and/or extremities. To properly diagnose this problem is to do a lead count of the blood and weigh each portion of the body (head and the extremities) separately and compare those results to non infected individuals of the same weight. One of the most common symptoms of previous excessive lead exposure in young adults is the frequent acquisition of speeding tickets due to the excessive lead deposits in the right foot. Gotcha'.

No, lead is not absorbed through the skin. Airborne lead is carried into the lungs where it is trapped by the mucus. Which is what is supposed to happen.

The lead can be absorbed through the lungs, or the mucus is transported and swallowed. Where the stomach acids make absorption even more likely.

The point is, stepping into a range, firing one shot and leaving is not a significant source of lead exposure. There are two quantities to an exposure, amount and time. You can reduce BOTH.

A simple dust mask will reduce the quantity, but a tight fitting half-face respirator with HEPA cartridges even more so. And then a good washing of the face and hands afterwards.

The other way to reduce the exposure amount is to shoot in a properly ventilated indoor range or shoot outdoors (the great outdoors is about the best dilution ventilation system out there).

Then address the time of exposure. How long to walk in, pick up pistol, fire one shot, and walk out. 1 minute? 2 minutes?

To be significant the exposure over a 2 minute time frame would have to VERY HIGH.

And finally, there is a thing called a dose-response curve. This shows the body response to different doses (time and quantity). This is NOT linear. Small doses have little to no affect. Only when you get to higher doses, do you see a linear change in response to dose. And many, if not most, materials show a positive affect on the body in low doses.

Like say zinc. In larger doses, zinc is toxic. It has a number of very bad affects. But in small doses, zinc is required by the body, and may help protect against colds and flu.

There is no way, with any decent range, that a 1 - 2 minute exposure will cause any issues, there is just not enough absorption.

 

[teratos]

Nope, the law only says PREVIOUSLY PURCHASED a regulated firearm. So a C&R pistol is a regulated firearm and can be purchased after 10/1/2013 (no HQL required) and then qualify as exemption.

Interesting loophole.

 

[Bald Fat Guy]

Well , we're not the OP's wife. Maybe she has complications that require total bed rest on her back for duration.

However , Mrs Biggfoot's Drs gave her a thumbs up , with a mask sugguested. .41 Magnums would make the baby kick after a few shots , but .22 or .38 was no issue.

 

[rseymorejr]

I told her I didn't want her to go to the range due to possible lead exposure. She still wanted it get her HQL so she asked her doctor about it during a routine checkup. Her doctor advised her not to go to the range during pregnant due to possible exposure to lead and other things. So it's not the ranges saying she can't go although they also advised to wait to get the HQL. Just trying to find a way to let her get the HQL without going against the doctor's orders, besides I don't want to chance it even if the risk of exposure is low.

How about an outdoor range? Several instructors give the HQL class at the AGC.

 

[ShafTed]

Nope, the law only says PREVIOUSLY PURCHASED a regulated firearm.

So a C&R pistol is a regulated firearm and can be purchased after 10/1/2013 (no HQL required) and then qualify as exemption.

The law sayeth:

" AN APPLICANT FOR A HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE IS
NOT REQUIRED TO COMPLETE A FIREARMS SAFETY TRAINING COURSE UNDER
SUBSECTION (C) (D) OF THIS SECTION IF THE APPLICANT:
.
.
.
(6) LAWFULLY OWNS A REGULATED FIREARM."
on pages 28-29 here - http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/chapters_noln/Ch_427_sb0281E.pdf

MSP web site (https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/S...ion/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx) says:

"Required to have the HQL, but exempt from the training component:

Someone who completed a firearms safety training course approved by the Secretary of the Department of Maryland State Police.

Has completed a course of instruction in the competency and safety of firearms as prescribed under Natural Resources Article, §10-301.1, Annotated Code of Maryland. Application for the Maryland Department of Natural Resources Hunter Safety Course Certificate can be obtained from here and may be used in lieu of Qualified Handgun Instruction.

Is currently a qualified handgun instructor.

Is an honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or National Guard.

Is an employee of an armored car company who has a handgun permit issued by MSP.

Lawfully owns a regulated firearm. If you already own a handgun or assault weapon prior to October 1, 2013, you do not have to complete the training to apply for the Handgun Qualification License."

So it seems that MSP is at least implying that ownership has to be prior to Oct 2013, contrary to the actual law. Just like they require firing one shot in the training, in direct violation of the wording of the actual law.

I thought I remembered the law when I made my original post, then went and looked at the MDSP site after Stoveman posted. Does anyone have a small neutron bomb we can send to the State House on Monday? Maybe we need two, one for the state house and one for Pikesville.

 

[Lou45]

No, lead is not absorbed through the skin. Airborne lead is carried into the lungs where it is trapped by the mucus. Which is what is supposed to happen.

The lead can be absorbed through the lungs, or the mucus is transported and swallowed. Where the stomach acids make absorption even more likely.

The point is, stepping into a range, firing one shot and leaving is not a significant source of lead exposure. There are two quantities to an exposure, amount and time. You can reduce BOTH.

A simple dust mask will reduce the quantity, but a tight fitting half-face respirator with HEPA cartridges even more so. And then a good washing of the face and hands afterwards.

The other way to reduce the exposure amount is to shoot in a properly ventilated indoor range or shoot outdoors (the great outdoors is about the best dilution ventilation system out there).

Then address the time of exposure. How long to walk in, pick up pistol, fire one shot, and walk out. 1 minute? 2 minutes?

To be significant the exposure over a 2 minute time frame would have to VERY HIGH.

And finally, there is a thing called a dose-response curve. This shows the body response to different doses (time and quantity). This is NOT linear. Small doses have little to no affect. Only when you get to higher doses, do you see a linear change in response to dose. And many, if not most, materials show a positive affect on the body in low doses.

Like say zinc. In larger doses, zinc is toxic. It has a number of very bad affects. But in small doses, zinc is required by the body, and may help protect against colds and flu.

There is no way, with any decent range, that a 1 - 2 minute exposure will cause any issues, there is just not enough absorption.

Pinecone, I agree with you. I was jus' tryin' to pull Teratos' leg there with my post. If ya' had read it to the end, you would've seen that it was all a joke. Guess I got you too.

 

[Blaster229]

Ok. Thanks a lot guys. I'm still gonna try to talk her into waiting until after she delivers but she's pretty persistent. If she doesn't let it go I'll tell her about some of your suggestions. Thanks for the info!

If you have been to the range at all during the pregnancy she has already been exposed to it by what you brought into the house on your clothes or what is inside your vehicle. I am pretty sure you don't change out of those clothes and shoes in a mud room or out in the garage before you go into the house.

The doc probably thinks the firing is to be done at a range (inside range at that) where it truly is terrible conditions.

 

[sclag22]

My wife was so disappointed when she heard that she couldn't go shooting. She wasn't concerned with the lead exposure, but the dB from the "bang" travelling to the baby's freshly developing ears. I'm trying to figure out a sound deadening vest or jacket that will hug the belly and reduce the dB to a safe level. I don't know if it's possible though (no live testing...I wouldn't risk that).

 

[Docster]

I have researched the topic of pregnant women shooting in the past. I do not believe it is a problem. The risks with lead are laughable. I have done lead tests on guys who shoot ridiculous amounts rounds and cast their own bullets and they have been very low. A single shot should not be an issue. I am not an expert on neonatology, so don't take this as gospel. Do your own research.

I second this opinion. For a shot or two there would be no real risk, even less so outdoors. The risks become real with prolonged exposure to lead over time during pregnancy. A single, limited exposure would essentially be meaningless. Most family docs just haven't done the research so the tendency is to err on the side of caution with any pregnancy issue. Sometimes it's just easier to say 'don't do it or take it' than look for the factual answers.

 

[Cyclone]

My wife wants to buy a pistol so I was going to sign her up for the required safety class but she wouldn't be able complete the live fire portion of the class because she's pregnant. She still wants to get her HQL, is there another safety class that doesn't require live fire so she can get her HQL?

Why not just buy yourself a pistol. Then after that whats yours is hers and whats hers is yours. Same household right? Its not like she is prohibited of using your pistol...

 

[BigDaddy]

The "Doctor" is an anti 2A A$$. If the US Army will let its' pregnant , yes PREGNANT, Doctors (yes more then one) shoot the Q course, what does yours know that .gov doesn't?

You think the govt cares?

No, lead is not absorbed through the skin. Airborne lead is carried into the lungs where it is trapped by the mucus. Which is what is supposed to happen.

The usual route is inhalation or ingestion. That does not mean it not absorbed through the skin.

Baltimore County Police seems to be totally ignorant of lead exposure, are you sure your range is much better? http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-co-firearms-range-20140904-story.html

I have an MD behind my name, but I don't pay obstetrician malpractice rates. This is the price you pay if you have a phone/computer and a lawyer.

 

[Sundazes]

My wife was so disappointed when she heard that she couldn't go shooting. She wasn't concerned with the lead exposure, but the dB from the "bang" travelling to the baby's freshly developing ears. I'm trying to figure out a sound deadening vest or jacket that will hug the belly and reduce the dB to a safe level. I don't know if it's possible though (no live testing...I wouldn't risk that).

Suppressed 22 will solve any issues with noise.