Yup. If the current governor doesn't make inroads into this in his first term, there's little point in this community supporting him. This is a chance to show that who's in office matters.
Concur.
Yup. If the current governor doesn't make inroads into this in his first term, there's little point in this community supporting him. This is a chance to show that who's in office matters.
Yup. If the current governor doesn't make inroads into this in his first term, there's little point in this community supporting him. This is a chance to show that who's in office matters.
OK I guess now I have to ask the hard question. No disrespect intended here, but what makes a veteran more qualified to carry than a non-veteran? A veteran could be a 22 year old guy that served 2 years in the Army. How is he more qualified to carry than a 40 year old guy that has owned firearms and has been shooting and hunting for the past 30 years? It isn't always the seasoned veteran that put in 25 years that we are talking about here, but your way would be to check the veteran box and pick up your permit.
As far as retired LE having permits, that to me is a no brainer. We are basically talking about people that have been in LE for 20+ years. Have been trained and have been carrying a firearm everyday for 20+ years.
Nothing. I have a permit and am far less qualified marksmanship and experience wise than probably half the people here.Nothing...
What makes a business owner, doctor, lawyer or politician more qualified?
Could you please tell us who is trying to get in your way of getting a permit? Do you think this because some of us don't want to sign a meaningless online petition? I am all for you and everyone else getting a permit in MD. So fill out your application, get the required documents in order, and send it to:Heatseeker & Blaster229: Pretty much yep. But you are ignoring the other people that are already ahead of the vet who already have their permits. And you are not ignoring the others in line, you are telling them there shouldn't be a line and you also agree they should be next and you also wish them good luck.
Having to provide a G&S reason that someone else decides is 'good enough' is wrong. It's also wrong for those who have permits to get in the way of others efforts to get theirs. What if next time they feel your reason to obtain a permit is no longer good enough? They put you back in the line, that's not right either. This entire process is arbitrary and capricious. I've been supporting others and involved in this issue for years. Will you attend hearings, join MSI, participate in rallies and support 2A in Maryland with me?
That is the point you are ignoring, but like it or not they have G&S and that is what you need in MD. They are not going to consider being a Veteran as G&S. So the only way to get over that hurdle is to become Shall Issue.Nothing...
What makes a business owner, doctor, lawyer or politician more qualified?
For today's historical allusion , we are like Slavery Opponents. One facton is looking to reform the institution , reduce the abuses , and make more humane. Another faction wants some form gradual phased in freedom. A third wants imeadate , total end to slavery , and actively opposes anything less.
OK I guess now I have to ask the hard question. No disrespect intended here, but what makes a veteran more qualified to carry than a non-veteran? A veteran could be a 22 year old guy that served 2 years in the Army. How is he more qualified to carry than a 40 year old guy that has owned firearms and has been shooting and hunting for the past 30 years? It isn't always the seasoned veteran that put in 25 years that we are talking about here, but your way would be to check the veteran box and pick up your permit.
As far as retired LE having permits, that to me is a no brainer. We are basically talking about people that have been in LE for 20+ years. Have been trained and have been carrying a firearm everyday for 20+ years.
That is the point you are ignoring, but like it or not they have G&S and that is what you need in MD. They are not going to consider being a Veteran as G&S. So the only way to get over that hurdle is to become Shall Issue.
I understand what you are saying and basically agree, but think it is possible that if the state would loosen some restrictions and open the door a little wider that could make them feel they have appeased us enough and stand in the way of becoming a Shall Issue state.Thats a really good way to capture this debate. I'm not taking a hard line on my position, but I've held it for several years now because of what I've personally experienced and seen happen on the stage of the judiciary hearings, public propaganda, back room meetings and a little inside baseball. I'm pretty convinced that the best approach is while we are working toward a long term 'shall issue' stance for Maryland (I'd like to see a comparative analysis of how other states have implemented 'shall issue'); our priorities should be:
- Ensure Hogan appoints a more reasonable, pro-2A MDSP Superintendant
- Have them delete the 'Good and Substantial' clause, it has been abused; or at least have it interpreted as any non-disqualified person for personal protection purposes. This alone will make us permissive 'May Issue' a huge step toward 'shall issue'
- Remove all restrictions on current and future carry permits.
- Work with our represenatives to support bills that may remove some of the more ridiculious and ineffective laws, like the 7 day wait for people who already have clearances, HQL's or own regulated firearms. The ballistic fingerprinting does nothing to help solve crime it only adds another expense and burden, remove the handgun roster, allow permit renewals to be every 5 years instead of ever 3, etc.
- Chip away at the most ounerous provisions of SB281.
- And oh, by the way... while we are doing these other more important things; help individuals and groups who are struggling with their handgun permit. Slowly bending things back toward Liberty for all.
I agree, I don't think there should be any special classes of people; just one fair standard for all. Trust me there are plenty of LEO's that one could question if they could be a danger or not, but I'm not trying to focus on who to exclude - the vast majority are already excluded, I'm trying to get more people included. The door is already open just a little, I'm only suggesting we just keep opening it more and more until one day, it's all the way open.
Again, I don't want this issue to divide or make anyone feel their opinion doesn't matter or is wrong. Also, I don't feel this particular issue (of supporting or opposing any person or group of people trying to get a permit) is a high priority. I'm just trying to convey in writing to you (many of you are friends, that might just disagree with me to some degree on this little fine point of strategy), to simply not oppose anyone or any group that is requesting loosening of some restrictions or letting them open the door a little wider.
Thanks for the thorough discussion, I hope to see all of you that chimed in at the next rally in Annapolis.
Heatseeker & Blaster229: Pretty much yep. But you are ignoring the other people that are already ahead of the vet who already have their permits. And you are not ignoring the others in line, you are telling them there shouldn't be a line and you also agree they should be next and you also wish them good luck.
Having to provide a G&S reason that someone else decides is 'good enough' is wrong. It's also wrong for those who have permits to get in the way of others efforts to get theirs. What if next time they feel your reason to obtain a permit is no longer good enough? They put you back in the line, that's not right either. This entire process is arbitrary and capricious. I've been supporting others and involved in this issue for years. Will you attend hearings, join MSI, participate in rallies and support 2A in Maryland with me?
I like the way you put that and it's accurate, I want more people "In", not creating groups to exclude, 95+% are already excluded. All effort today should be on removing G&S or redefining it to mean simple personal protection. In the mean time supporting any individual or group to also be included. Please don't twist this into a divisive debate about the haves and have nots.
Go read my many posts on this subject, read my analogy of getting more people on the bus. And if you have a permit, don't be a hypocrite and hurt others chances of getting a permit.
Live and let live.
It is not a pipe dream that we can make incremental changes over time to make things better. If you don't want to support a vet being added to the short list of favorably considered, at least don't sabotage them. Many of you haven't been involved in this issue to know that in the past, some progun organizations have actually opposed measures that could have helped others with permits have it a bit easier. These things are very important and discussed all the time. If you are not involved in the debate, and you seem to care, you should be.
Nothing...
What makes a business owner, doctor, lawyer or politician more qualified?
That is the point you are ignoring, but like it or not they have G&S and that is what you need in MD. They are not going to consider being a Veteran as G&S. So the only way to get over that hurdle is to become Shall Issue.
(snip)
I agree, I don't think there should be any special classes of people; just one fair standard for all. Trust me there are plenty of LEO's that one could question if they could be a danger or not, but I'm not trying to focus on who to exclude - the vast majority are already excluded, I'm trying to get more people included. The door is already open just a little, I'm only suggesting we just keep opening it more and more until one day, it's all the way open.
Again, I don't want this issue to divide or make anyone feel their opinion doesn't matter or is wrong. Also, I don't feel this particular issue (of supporting or opposing any person or group of people trying to get a permit) is a high priority. I'm just trying to convey in writing to you (many of you are friends, that might just disagree with me to some degree on this little fine point of strategy), to simply not oppose anyone or any group that is requesting loosening of some restrictions or letting them open the door a little wider.
Thanks for the thorough discussion, I hope to see all of you that chimed in at the next rally in Annapolis.
But they do not have an automatic G&S, they all still need to go the same things you do.
This is correct. I do not get my permit just because I'm a doctor. I work in a high crime area and transport narcotics. If I didn't, I would have been denied.