subguns for self Defense?

[amoebicmagician]

In addition, I may be able to acquire a Custom barrel for The Lage that is chambered for the 22 TCM.

This badboy round is a 40 grain, .224 cal, hollowpoint that flies in excess of 2000FPS.. From a necked down 9 mm case.

This brings the Lage into the Subcarbine/ PDW category. With a simple change of the barrel and ammo.

I'd rather have something in 7.62x25

The Czech SMG ammo out of a PISTOL barrel is over 2000 fps, and that's a 90 grain .30 caliber projectile, that is to say a larger diameter round going the same or better speed with more than double the weight.

Out of my M57 my limited supply of Czech subgun ammo shoots almost 2200 fps!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SCARCQB]

I'd rather have something in 7.62x25

The Czech SMG ammo out of a PISTOL barrel is over 2000 fps, and that's a 90 grain .30 caliber projectile, that is to say a larger diameter round going the same or better speed with more than double the weight.

Out of my M57 my limited supply of Czech subgun ammo shoots almost 2200 fps!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I m rather fond of the 5.56. It expends its energy very quickly upon impact. To limit overpenetration. Speed equates to fragmentation. However,The heavier 7.62x25 will stay intact and most likely overpenetrate.

This is why you will not see too many swat teams using the 6.8, 7.62 cal. Unless as. dmr round.

 

[amoebicmagician]

It's a home invasion. Multiple armed perps. Which one will you grab ?

Why?

is the AUG NFA?

If so, then the the AUG

If not, probably still the AUG. I shoot really well with bullpups. I find them intuitive for some reason.

That said, the MP5 is hard to refuse.

If I had just the one mag, I'd definitely go with the AUG, NFA or not.

If i had a sack full of magazines, then probably the MP5

 

[Wayne1one]

30+ rounds of .45acp for me!!


IMG_5123 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

 

[amoebicmagician]

I m rather fond of the 5.56. It expends its energy very quickly upon impact. To limit overpenetration. Speed equates to fragmentation. However,The heavier 7.62x25 will stay intact and most likely overpenetrate.

This is why you will not see too many swat teams using the 6.8, 7.62 cal. Unless as. dmr round.

you're probably right about a lot of penetration.

Haven't tried the subgun ammo, but S&B commercial and Polish surplus 7.62x25 ammo both tumbled in gelatin (store bought, not ballistic) and left INCREDIBLY HUGE wound cavities for a pistol caliber. The thing started yawing about 2 1/2 inches in on both rounds, both turning pronouncedly UPWARDS and leaving the block without being retained in the gelatin via shooting out the top of the block.

The S&B was a COMPLETE MESS from about 3 inches in to where it left the block at about 9 inches, while the polish surplus had a large cavity from 2 1/2 to about 6 inches in a kind of sideways teardrop shape pointing towards the entrance, but then settled down, and then started leaving a trail no larger than the diameter of the bullet, soon bending skyward and leaving the block never to be recovered.

So yeah, it will probably overpenetrate, but I'm willing to deal with that since I've seen with my own eyes how devastating these rounds can be, it's much more real for me this way than just knowing something on paper.

I also found out with that same gelatin that .40 and 9mm are both more badass than I had originally thought at providing conspicuous wound tracks.

Oh, btw, I know you probably realize this, but both the surplus polish and S&B were both ball ammunition, the polish copper jacketed or bi-metal jacketed steel core, and the S&B soft lead in a brass jacket

 

[SCARCQB]

AUG.... Good choice.

My main defensive guns are primarily bullpups.
An AUG. STG556LE, PS90 SBR.

I retired the AR SBRs for HD role. They were simply too loud and the blast tends to eff up your night vision. The concusion can disorient as well.

If those do not work, the Benelli m4 with OO buck should

For dynamic CQB....subguns rule

Then...pistols , knife, axe, baseball bat, crowbar, ashtray..... Cellphone

Then call 911

 

[SCARCQB]

Maybe i should start a thread about Pistol caliber Carbines for HD

 

[ericoak]

Here is a video from 15ish yards away. If I slowed it down to 3-4 round bursts I can do it at 25 yards. Took a lot of money/.45 to get there though.



The guy working at adventure outdoors was talking a bunch of shit about my Mac so I bet him I could put all 30 on target at 25 yards and won.

 

[SCARCQB]

nice shooting with a Mac.

im impressed.

 

[ericoak]

nice shooting with a Mac.

im impressed.

Well in your defense, it is easy for me since I only have one non neutered gun, whereas you have a whole family you have to play with to keep happy.

 

[ericoak]

There is no way I could compete in a subgun match with it though, the ones I have seen they are generally shooting at 4" diameter plates, way too small for the Mac. But on actual body size targets, the m10 with a real stock is quite formable. I wouldn't take it over an mp5, but I am very confident I could stop almost anything coming through my bedroom door.

 

[SCARCQB]

the MP5 SD with its ported barrel has the same energy as a 380 Ruger LCP.

A MAC10 in 45..... Delivers the same amount of energy as the Hammer of Thor.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Here is a video from 15ish yards away. If I slowed it down to 3-4 round bursts I can do it at 25 yards. Took a lot of money/.45 to get there though.

The guy working at adventure outdoors was talking a bunch of shit about my Mac so I bet him I could put all 30 on target at 25 yards and won.

Boy, thats some nice shooting! Looks like you someone really showed you how to shoot! Someone at the AGC really knew what they were doing.

I find that pretty much any FA gun can be handled with the correct application of body weight and experience. I have shot FALs, G3s and M14s. They are a lot to handle but 5 rounds bursts can be controlled. The Mac is no different. Trigger control and experience should allow you to stay on target. That said, I am not sure the same can be said if you have to shoot on the move. I don't have a lot of experience shooting on the move and I think you really might start to see the difference if you don't have time to setup before shooting a gun like a Mac.

When I first started shooting FA, I pretty much only had access to a Tommy gun. During the match that year, at 10 yards, I was able to shoot all 20rds with a single trigger pull and put them all in a 8.5x11. That won me first place in that event. If you learn gun and how it reacts, you can really learn to control it. Also, at the AGC we shoot at 50 yards and must keep on target. It forces us to be more accurate than a lot of FA shooting. It really forces you to learn accuracy and not just spraying and pray.

 

[ericoak]

the MP5 SD with its ported barrel has the same energy as a 380 Ruger LCP.

A MAC10 in 45..... Delivers the same amount of energy as the Hammer of Thor.

I knew the porting hurt the power compared to a 10" barrel, I didn't realize it cut it down to a .380. Not like I want to catch 3 rounds from an LCP to the chest though.

 

[huesmann]

It's a home invasion. Multiple armed perps. Which one will you grab ?

Why?

P90. Multiple perps = mag cap of 50 rds. No wondering if/when I'm gonna go dry. If I can't disable all the perps or bug out within 50 rounds, no other weapon will do any better.

 

[Elliotte]

It's a home invasion. Multiple armed perps. Which one will you grab ?

Why?

Based on the pics? Either the AR or the MP5, b/c each has a can on it. If it's home defense I don't wanna ruin my family's hear or my hearing over some gutter trash that picked the wrong house.

 

[SCARCQB]

I may have pissed off a group of well armed badguys... Better have it an not need it.

 

[ericoak]

I have watched plenty of people get shot on liveleak over the years and it becomes pretty obvious that guns don't work like they do in the movies, especially handguns. People takes center of mass shots from pistols and you can't even tell they have been hit.

Shit there are videos of people taking 30mm anti tank rounds and hellfire missiles from apaches and they continue to crawl and move.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4cb_1224892151

 

[SCARCQB]

I do spend a bit of time overseas... In the not so touristy spots of third world countries.

In some places, I can be armed. Kidnapping for ransom is big business overseas. So... It is not really that farfetched to need an automatic weapon for self defense. And yes, itbwill be mutiple armed badguys.. Doing a full assault in your home.

Overseas... My daily carry piece is a Glock 18, then upgraded to a glock34 with an FSSG.
M4s and AKs are great for CQB, but tend to be large and hard to handle in confined spaces.
Subguns rule short range combat.

The happy switch allows you to shoot like Jerry Miculek.. With a flip of a switch. Modern combat rule of thumb. The side that can lay down the most firepower, often wins.

 

[honda53s]

Looks like I will be joining you subgun owners here shortly Well... After my 12-14 month wait.