HBAR AR15's

[Daniel87]

I have been seeing a bunch of HBAR AR15's at shops recently and they are unregulated cash and carry even though they are almost cosmetically identical to the lighter weight AR15's. Will these still be legal after october 1st, and if not since they are unregulated could I drive to Pennsylvania and buy one and simply bring it home to MD since its unregulated?

 

[dblas]

I have been seeing a bunch of HBAR AR15's at shops recently and they are unregulated cash and carry even though they are almost cosmetically identical to the lighter weight AR15's. Will these still be legal after october 1st, and if not since they are unregulated could I drive to Pennsylvania and buy one and simply bring it home to MD since its unregulated?

Have you done a search yet? There are several threads that cover this.

But for the sake of brevity, the answer is yes, they will remain unregulated.

BTW, if they weren't legal after Oct 1, you wouldn't be able to buy one in PA and bring it back, because at that point it would no longer be unregulated.

MSP just put out in a bulletin that they are unregulated and will remain so.

 

[Daniel87]

Have you done a search yet? There are several threads that cover this.

But for the sake of brevity, the answer is yes, they will remain unregulated.

BTW, if they weren't legal after Oct 1, you wouldn't be able to buy one in PA and bring it back, because at that point it would no longer be unregulated.

MSP just put out in a bulletin that they are unregulated and will remain so.

thanks

 

[tall.guy88]

Have you done a search yet? There are several threads that cover this.

But for the sake of brevity, the answer is yes, they will remain unregulated.

BTW, if they weren't legal after Oct 1, you wouldn't be able to buy one in PA and bring it back, because at that point it would no longer be unregulated.

MSP just put out in a bulletin that they are unregulated and will remain so.

 

[Vile Shadow]

Since it's unregulated no sense in going to PA to get it.

 

[Shamr0ck]

Have you done a search yet? There are several threads that cover this.

But for the sake of brevity, the answer is yes, they will remain unregulated.

BTW, if they weren't legal after Oct 1, you wouldn't be able to buy one in PA and bring it back, because at that point it would no longer be unregulated.

MSP just put out in a bulletin that they are unregulated and will remain so.

I know it is early and the coffee hasn't yet kicked in, but **my** reading of the most recent MSP bulletin ONLY named the Colt HBAR as being non-regulated. Now, I know that, in the past, MSP has opined that they view ANY HBAR as falling into the cash and carry bucket, but given SB281 and an ever decreasing faith in the .gov herein MD, the MSP to discharge their duties and a concern that the MSP COMAR Regs will actually conform to the law and not stretch it, I am, personally, just waiting for the MSP to revoke the ANY HBAR is cash and carry opinion.

Call me skeptical, cautious or cynical..... I hope I'm wrong....



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Shamr0ck

 

[JoshingYu]

I thought you couldn't buy something in another state and bring it back. It had to go through a FFL.

 

[Shamr0ck]

I thought you couldn't buy something in another state and bring it back. It had to go through a FFL.

I believe that you can purchase NON-regulated firearms in states adjacent to where you live (although I've never purchased out of state). MUST purchase in-state applies to REGULATED firearms of which MD defines as pistols which are on the MD Handgun Roster list and AR-15s.

The Colt H-BAR AR-15 was exempted from the definition of an assault weapon and the MSP currently extends that exemption to all H-BAR rifles -- hence an H-BAR is NOT regulated and is cash and carry after the ATF 4473 process is completed successfully.

I've never tried to purchase an H-BAR from a dealer out of state and although it MAY be legal to do so (since MD doesn't consider them regulated) it may very well be next to impossible to find an out of state FFL who understands this -- heck, even some MD FFLs insist that AR-15 H-BARs are Regulated and that AR-10s are also regulated.

 

[cjroman]

Going out of state, if you can find a FFL that understands the laws, might be the best option.
I can only imagine how high the prices will be on HBARs post October 1st.

 

[swinokur]

The "adjacent state" law has been gone for 20 years or so. Read the AG opinion on copies (not copycats)

Then go read SB281 and lots of questions will be answered.

 

[kalister1]

I thought you couldn't buy something in another state and bring it back. It had to go through a FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons

See question number 2. Note that this is only for Rifles or Shotguns and must be legal in both States.
Maryland has what is called "Regulated" firearms. regulated firearms MUST go through a MD FFL, by MD Law. So if you go out of State and buy an H-Bar(NON-Regulated) from an FFL you can just bring it home.

 

[Boom Boom]

I thought you couldn't buy something in another state and bring it back. It had to go through a FFL.

That only applies to handguns and other MD-regulated firearms. MD does *not* regulate HBARs.

 

[SigDog]

I know it is early and the coffee hasn't yet kicked in, but **my** reading of the most recent MSP bulletin ONLY named the Colt HBAR as being non-regulated. Now, I know that, in the past, MSP has opined that they view ANY HBAR as falling into the cash and carry bucket, but given SB281 and an ever decreasing faith in the .gov herein MD, the MSP to discharge their duties and a concern that the MSP COMAR Regs will actually conform to the law and not stretch it, I am, personally, just waiting for the MSP to revoke the ANY HBAR is cash and carry opinion.

Call me skeptical, cautious or cynical..... I hope I'm wrong....



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Shamr0ck

This ^^^^^

The way that I interpret it is that only Colt H-Bar rifles will remain.
I've never understood how any H-Bar qualifies if it's not a Colt even though dealers have been selling any mnufacturers H-Bars over the counter for years.
Is their an older letter/ruling from MSP that says any H-Bar is okay?

 

[kalister1]

This ^^^^^

The way that I interpret it is that only Colt H-Bar rifles will remain.
I've never understood how any H-Bar qualifies if it's not a Colt even though dealers have been selling any manufacturers H-Bars over the counter for years.
Is their an older letter/ruling from MSP that says any H-Bar is okay?

Yes there was a letter posted here saying that any H-Bar was cash and carry.
This is discussed at least once a week. All dealers do not agree, so some will sell you anything with a heavy barrel as cash and carry, some will not. Just like some dealers are releasing after 8 days, some wait for the ND from MSP. Ask before you give your money to the man.

 

[swinokur]

seems clear to me what a copy is.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2604997&postcount=10

 

[hvymax]

And thanks to vertical grips, threaded barrels and bayonet lugs not being on the feature list the only difference needs to be the barrel configuration. So really this is no big deal at all for AR fans.

 

[aireyc]

I know it is early and the coffee hasn't yet kicked in, but **my** reading of the most recent MSP bulletin ONLY named the Colt HBAR as being non-regulated. Now, I know that, in the past, MSP has opined that they view ANY HBAR as falling into the cash and carry bucket, but given SB281 and an ever decreasing faith in the .gov herein MD, the MSP to discharge their duties and a concern that the MSP COMAR Regs will actually conform to the law and not stretch it, I am, personally, just waiting for the MSP to revoke the ANY HBAR is cash and carry opinion.

Call me skeptical, cautious or cynical..... I hope I'm wrong....

Why would anything change? What was regulated is now banned. They also added copycat tests which apply to all non-banned guns. The bulletin clearly states "After October 1, 2013, an AR-15 HBar/Heavy Barrel will still not be regulated." They then cite the law that justifies this statement, and the law only exempts the Colt, but has been interpreted to mean all HBARs for however long now. The reason they don't specifically mention all HBARs in the answer is because this isn't a question of interpretation, but of what the law actually says.

The bulletin is just mocking all of the people who keep asking the same questions over and over and who are too inept to read the actual text of the law. Most of these debates on here are a waste of time. Unless there's a clear conflict in the law, there shouldn't be a debate, but we'll still see a 15 page discussion with 100 different interpretations of the real meaning behind the word "is."

 

[dontpanic]

I tried to buy a mini14 in VA. I saw it in a shop near Front Royal about 4 mos ago when thre wee none in MD, at any price. The guy wouldn't sell it to me. Said he didn't understand MD laws and would not take the chance

Heading back toward MD I found another in a shop in Fredericksburg. No problem, paid the man and left with my rifle.

It just seems that the shops closer to the MD border are more aware of MD gun laws and more likely to sell to you

 

[Shamr0ck]

Why would anything change? What was regulated is now banned. They also added copycat tests which apply to all non-banned guns. The bulletin clearly states "After October 1, 2013, an AR-15 HBar/Heavy Barrel will still not be regulated." They then cite the law that justifies this statement, and the law only exempts the Colt, but has been interpreted to mean all HBARs for however long now. The reason they don't specifically mention all HBARs in the answer is because this isn't a question of interpretation, but of what the law actually says.

The bulletin is just mocking all of the people who keep asking the same questions over and over and who are too inept to read the actual text of the law. Most of these debates on here are a waste of time. Unless there's a clear conflict in the law, there shouldn't be a debate, but we'll still see a 15 page discussion with 100 different interpretations of the real meaning behind the word "is."

Again, I hope I'm incorrect and the current opinion letter from Gansler stays in effect - i simply don't trust that the opinion will survive the upcoming COMAR regs nor that it will not change with a future administration. Given the legislature's behavior this spring, I think a healthy dose of skepticism is in order.

I saw the red portion above NOT as the MSP answer, but rather the question to which they responded so when I saw the qualification in their answer to include the Colt rifle, by name, I felt like a semantic trap is being laid where at some point in the future, the MSP could simply say - only the Colt... It was early, these issues are not clear cut, yes I've read the laws and am still unclear -- Very interested to see the updated COMAR regs and learn of the outcome from the upcoming training sessions the MSP is hosting.​

seems clear to me what a copy is.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2604997&postcount=10

Thanks for posting this AG letter. I hadn't yet seen it but knew it existed. Gansler certainly answers the question but as I have not paid attention in the past (my fault) I don't know if the next AG or the courts are necessarily bound by Gansler's opinion.​

 

[Silverlode]

I know it is early and the coffee hasn't yet kicked in, but **my** reading of the most recent MSP bulletin ONLY named the Colt HBAR as being non-regulated. Now, I know that, in the past, MSP has opined that they view ANY HBAR as falling into the cash and carry bucket, but given SB281 and an ever decreasing faith in the .gov herein MD, the MSP to discharge their duties and a concern that the MSP COMAR Regs will actually conform to the law and not stretch it, I am, personally, just waiting for the MSP to revoke the ANY HBAR is cash and carry opinion.

Call me skeptical, cautious or cynical..... I hope I'm wrong....



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Shamr0ck

This. I hear a lot of people making assumptions but I don't think any of us know how some of this will break. Especially if Frosh ends up AG.

To the OP, yes you can go out of state and pick up a cash and carry HBAR, for now.