SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[awptickes]

Btw a TS background investigation is far, far more intrusive but also very expensive.

An SSBI, without poly costs in the area of 80k. With poly, depending on which polygraphs need to be taken, can go upwards of 120k. It requires meeting people face-to-face and following all leads uncovered during those interviews, to include interviewing other people spoken about during those interviews. Recently, SSBIs can take anywhere from 30 days to over 6 months.

Curiously enough, the "Authorization for Release of Information" portion of the MD Permit Application gives the MSP the permission to pull any security clearance investigative reports and notes. I wonder if the MSP actually does go to OPM and requests their files on an individual, and if so, what OPM's response is?

If you have a TS, you shouldn't have any worries about being denied a MD Permit.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

It appears AG Gansler is forgetful also.

The anti's are fighting tooth and nail to contain the right inside the home.

Gansler doesn't want to the the first to open the perverbial pandora's box. He's fighting with the only thing he can, which are techicalities and rules of order, and no substance.

Sucks to be him. lol

You and I (and a lot of others around here) all know that only Gansler and the AG's office really hold's the key to Pandora's box (for now).

He could certainly keep the box locked into one room in the house, instead by him appealing, he is certain to release it's contents to the remainder of the house, and the outside world.

You're right, it does suck to be him.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Yet we need to have notarized signatures to petition to have a referendum on that vote. Makes no sense.

What I would like to see, which obviously isn't going to be "fixed' here, is a detailed denial. For example, John Smith is denied post Woollard. I'd bet the denial letter will state something ambiguous such as "after review of your background investigation, we regrettably....". In lending, there has to be a detailed denial. That would help keep everyone honest on the other side of things.

Meh. That's not unusual. The app is normally mailed, along with two passport photos and a photocopy of state issued ID. The ID's can be forged, but assuming you present them to a notary, and they see that you filled out the form, it adds an additional layer to the review process to absolve the state from liability.

If you could present yourself to the reviewing officer, notary wouldn't matter. I don't see the notary as an issue having been through that aspect for the VA Non-Res.

Which for all yall that don't have your VA Non-Res or a Utah, I'd suggest you do get it now since you would then have the ability to carry in all of our neighboring states. Big bonus once the dust settles from Woollard.

 

[SkunkWerX]

It appears AG Gansler is forgetful also.

The anti's are fighting tooth and nail to contain the right inside the home.

Gansler doesn't want to the the first to open the perverbial pandora's box. He's fighting with the only thing he can, which are techicalities and rules of order, and no substance.

Sucks to be him. lol

^This is truth!!^

And given their lackluster performance arguing the Woollard case at this level, they better have a 900 lb. gorilla hiding up their collective butts that they can turn loose at the next level. IANAL but it seems highly unlikely and imprudent to hold back any serious argument, only to allow the case to rise to the next level so you can "whip it out" and look so smart.

Common wisdom is that they are out of rope, they got nothing.
Oh wait, Public Safety. Which I would give themn half-a-chance with that one, if MD was the 1st,
or even 10th Shall Issue state.... not the 41st or 42nd.

 

[pcfixer]

An SSBI, without poly costs in the area of 80k. With poly, depending on which polygraphs need to be taken, can go upwards of 120k. It requires meeting people face-to-face and following all leads uncovered during those interviews, to include interviewing other people spoken about during those interviews. Recently, SSBIs can take anywhere from 30 days to over 6 months.

Curiously enough, the "Authorization for Release of Information" portion of the MD Permit Application gives the MSP the permission to pull any security clearance investigative reports and notes. I wonder if the MSP actually does go to OPM and requests their files on an individual, and if so, what OPM's response is?

If you have a TS, you shouldn't have any worries about being denied a MD Permit.

I had a secret clearance whole time on active duty. No need for me to worry either. Also was investigad and finger printed for working at Social Security building in Baltimore...

 

[krucam]

Next Friday, March 16th it is for Plaintiff SAF/Hansel/Gura/Woollard response to request for Stay.

2012-03-08 56 0 ORDER granting 55 Motion to Expedite Briefing Schedule on Motion for Clarification and Stay. Signed by Judge Benson Everett Legg on 3/8/2012. (aos, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 03/08/2012) 2012-03-08 16:53:26

http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772.56.0.pdf

 

[shawn]

Btw a TS background investigation is far, far more intrusive but also very expensive.

True.......but at least on the SF-86 for TS clearance it only make you go back 10 years for everything.

When I fill out the stupid Maryland permit for I am going to rack my brain for every little thing I have done.

Someone said that traffic laws are still criminal laws. So I have to remember every traffic violation I have ever been "charged" with.

That is way harder than filling out an SF-86 which only goes back ten years.

Have you ever been CHARGED with a violation of any criminal law?

 

[Papi4baby]

True.......but at least on the SF-86 for TS clearance it only make you go back 10 years for everything.

When I fill out the stupid Maryland permit for I am going to rack my brain for every little thing I have done.

Someone said that traffic laws are still criminal laws. So I have to remember every traffic violation I have ever been "charged" with.

That is way harder than filling out an SF-86 which only goes back ten years.

I am pretty sure moving violations do not count unless you took a ride on the cruiser.

I did mine 3 years ago and i can't remember speeding and whatnot being an issue.

 

[krucam]

True.......but at least on the SF-86 for TS clearance it only make you go back 10 years for everything.

When I fill out the stupid Maryland permit for I am going to rack my brain for every little thing I have done.

Someone said that traffic laws are still criminal laws. So I have to remember every traffic violation I have ever been "charged" with.

That is way harder than filling out an SF-86 which only goes back ten years.

I DO NOT believe this to be true and would like to get some additional confirmation on that question.

Hypotheticals:
DUI-1. Traffic Court? Criminal Court?
DUI-1. Is the offense a part of the Criminal Law Code?
Speeding Ticket. Traffic Court? Criminal Court?
Speeding Ticket. Is the offense a part of the Criminal Law Code?

If the offense isn't a part of the "Criminal Law Code" (vs Traffic), then the "Have you been ARRESTED/CHARGED/CONVICTED with a violation of Criminal Law" questions can be answered NO.....correct?

Does a DUI, if not in Criminal Court, create a "STRIKE" for the following question:
(19) Are you addicted to, or have you ever been, or are you currently being treated for alcoholism?

I would also say NO to that one. Alcoholism is a separate diagnosis apart from a DUI. The first clause, "Are you addicted to" doesn't have a proper Subject. Addicted to what? The word alcohol isn't there. Alcoholism is, so is the question "Are you addicted to...alcoholism?".

No is the answer to that question unless they can prove otherwise.

Agreed on these questions being worse than an SF-86. Here's to hoping a more sane version comes out in the near future.

 

[X-Factor]

"Yes. I am addicted to love, flowers, and puppies"
"No permit for you, hippy."

 

[awptickes]

So, conceivably, if you were charged with a criminal offense before your 16th birthday, then expunged, you'd have to answer yes and then explain?

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

Just to drive my point about literacy tests, here's an example of an Alabama voter registration form from before the Voting Rights Act designed to interrogate, intimidate, and deny voters based on their, uh, good and substantial competence to vote. Look familiar?

http://www.crmvet.org/info/litapp.pdf

 

[esqappellate]

Meh.

Which for all yall that don't have your VA Non-Res or a Utah, I'd suggest you do get it now since you would then have the ability to carry in all of our neighboring states. Big bonus once the dust settles from Woollard.

Mailed my VA non-res application today. Anyone have any idea how long it will take. My background is super clean

 

[esqappellate]

If you have a TS, you shouldn't have any worries about being denied a MD Permit.

no worries on the background but G&S is just a license to be arbitrary for the state

 

[garyad]

Mailed my VA non-res application today. Anyone have any idea how long it will take. My background is supper clean

Should take between 4 to 6 weeks. Mine took exactly 5 weeks.

 

[littlebr4d]

Pretty telling IMO.

Thank you very much for those organized, supported, and well thought-out arguments to antis. I, of course, share your opinions and it helps to have references readily available if necessary.

 

[Inigoes]

You and I (and a lot of others around here) all know that only Gansler and the AG's office really hold's the key to Pandora's box (for now).

He could certainly keep the box locked into one room in the house, instead by him appealing, he is certain to release it's contents to the remainder of the house, and the outside world.

Nope

The box was already ordered opened by Judge Legg there is no going back. Gansler can hold his breath till he passes out in a temper tantrum. In the end, someone will grab the key and open the box for him.

This case and the weaver case are going to be used far and wide as a supplemental authority, to expand the 2A foundation.

 

[Afield]

Order PDF?

Is there actually a PDF floating around or on pacer that is Legg's "order of even date" to which his opinion refers?

Cause thats the actual order, right?

Kind of an important item....

 

[Kashmir1008]

Thank you very much for those organized, supported, and well thought-out arguments to antis. I, of course, share your opinions and it helps to have references readily available if necessary.

No problem - I have been spending a fair amount of time digging though tables and graphs, numbers and definitions trying to assess what is really happening looking at very basic data.

As I come up with more data I will post it. I try to really look at it objectively even though I'm obviously pro 2A. Honestly if the statistics supported some "public safety crisis" I would have shared that as well. There just really isn't any real world statistical data to support their assertion of death, destruction, chaos and mayhem.

I'm fairly convinced at this point that irrational fear of of guns is a sign of emotional immaturity, perhaps even bordering on a mental disorder.

Feel free to spread this info around "liberally". That's why I posted it.

 

[shawn]

I DO NOT believe this to be true and would like to get some additional confirmation on that question.

Hypotheticals:
DUI-1. Traffic Court? Criminal Court?
DUI-1. Is the offense a part of the Criminal Law Code?
Speeding Ticket. Traffic Court? Criminal Court?
Speeding Ticket. Is the offense a part of the Criminal Law Code?

If the offense isn't a part of the "Criminal Law Code" (vs Traffic), then the "Have you been ARRESTED/CHARGED/CONVICTED with a violation of Criminal Law" questions can be answered NO.....correct?

Does a DUI, if not in Criminal Court, create a "STRIKE" for the following question:
(19) Are you addicted to, or have you ever been, or are you currently being treated for alcoholism?

I would also say NO to that one. Alcoholism is a separate diagnosis apart from a DUI. The first clause, "Are you addicted to" doesn't have a proper Subject. Addicted to what? The word alcohol isn't there. Alcoholism is, so is the question "Are you addicted to...alcoholism?".

No is the answer to that question unless they can prove otherwise.

Agreed on these questions being worse than an SF-86. Here's to hoping a more sane version comes out in the near future.

Exactly.

I do not know what they consider a crime. Do they mean traffic incidents? Are you "charged" with a crime when you break a traffic law?


There is no clear answers to any of this.

Maybe some of the lawyers could chime in?