SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[2ndsupporter]

Speedy

Funny how fast all this is happening! Would never be this fast if Woolard lost now would it?

 

[Klunatic]

I love Gansler is such a CF. He asks for clarification of the relief because he is so dense that he doesn't understand the ruling to stop violating a citizens Constitutional rights. Then in the next sentence I don't know what you are going to tell us but after you tell me what to do please stay the order.

Don't you have to provide a reason the stay is necessary? His can you do that if you don't know how the order will impact you?

 

[esqappellate]

Anyone else get a little nervous reading this passage?

Nope. That is accurate Gura is presenting a narrow question. Smart

 

[rglrguy]

Anyone else get a little nervous reading this passage?

I believe this falls in line with "courts can ban a form of carry but not carry all together". This would mean they could ban concealed carry but would have to allow open carry. I don't see maryland doing this, but if they do Krucam will lead the charge in getting it quickly changed to concealed only with his thong and hogleg (revolver).

 

[Lightning]

Does Gura and the SAF get to respond to the State's request for a stay on behalf of Mr. Woolard or is this part of the process simply between the State and the Federal Judge?

 

[jkray]

I believe this falls in line with "courts can ban a form of carry but not carry all together". This would mean they could ban concealed carry but would have to allow open carry. I don't see maryland doing this, but if they do Krucam will lead the charge in getting it quickly changed to concealed only with his thong and hogleg (revolver).

Gotchya. I tend to read things about this subject with the "worst case" frame of mind and forgot about the idea that you must allow at least one type of carry. My fears are now relieved. I do not think they will get their stay based on the arguments provided in that motion. Very weak, however IANAL

 

[Storm40]

still reading, but

...requiring the issuance by the Maryland State Police of permits to
wear and carry handguns in public under circumstances that the Maryland General
Assembly has determined will imperil public safety.

smart, asking the court to stay it's own order using a reason the court expressly denied in it's opinion.

 

[esqappellate]

Does Gura and the SAF get to respond to the State's request for a stay on behalf of Mr. Woolard or is this part of the process simply between the State and the Federal Judge?

Absolutely they are entitled to respond. Take alook at the footnotes State wants a response by 3/12. Plaintiffs want til 3/16. Both dates would be expedited

 

[smokey]

As reported, Defendants filed a MOTION FOR CLARIFICATION OR AMENDMENT OF ORDER AND FOR IMMEDIATE STAY PENDING APPEAL late yesterday...along with putting a Rush Order on it.


http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772.54.0.pdf
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772.55.0.pdf

They're asking for an explanation of the extent of the relief granted in the opinion. There is a lack of a clear order at the end of the opinion, to be honest.

Also, Defendant's say they got caught with their pants down, or something like that:

how can they say it's legally unmapped when all md's surrounding states allow concealed carry? Md seems like that kid in the class that refused to pay attention to directions because they were busy picking their nose and now wants the teacher to tell emm what they're supposed to be doing while everyone else is hard at work. "look around you at what everyone else is doing" seems like a good response.

 

[smokey]

Absolutely they are entitled to respond. Take alook at the footnotes State wants a response by 3/12. Plaintiffs want til 3/16. Both dates would be expedited

16th like when they no longer accept ink fingerprints 16th? innnteresting.

 

[E.Shell]

still reading, but

smart, asking the court to stay it's own order using a reason the court expressly denied in it's opinion.

LOL, I'm hoping Judge Legg will take it with the same humor we see in it.

The whole dog & pony show has been embarrassing from a "state pride" perspective, I'm just glad they're on the wrong side of this one and not defending something valid.

 

[esqappellate]

still reading, but

smart, asking the court to stay it's own order using a reason the court expressly denied in it's opinion.

In law as in war, one should not underestimate one's opponents.

 

[E.Shell]

In law as in war, one should not underestimate one's opponents.

Good point for sure, but after seeing their performance to date, and now this latest statement requesting clarification, I don't know that we are still "estimating".

 

[hvymax]

The ruling semi implied Constitutional Carry. I hope that is what is clarified.

 

[MRA]

I'm not a fan of Gansler's but I think he is doing what he is told to do. He's looking for anything he can put in his document that could remotely help their side. Our state is rampant with a style of leadership where everyone is told to follow the "company line". Sometimes that is necessary but not to the degree that we have it in MD. I have met LEOs that have been told what to say about 2A and it follows the "company line". Talk to them in a more casual setting and it's a different story. I'm guessing that Owe'Malley and company are scrambling because they know they are between a rock and a hard place.

Here's my question. I'm sorry if it has already been asked and answered. This thread is very long and I might have missed it. If we apply under the current application and the legislature changes the rules, wouldn't we still only have to meet the requirements set forth in the current application minus G&S?

 

[Storm40]

the only issue i have is that i have the paperwork in my hand and i was going to make an appt. to get printed, but now I'm going to (have to?) wait till I see if a stay is granted. Wish I'd have hopped on the bandwagon earlier. i have only myself to blame. However, if we get a stay pending appeal, maybe i'll send the money to MSI instead

 

[swinokur]

Remember if Judge Legg refuses they will then run to the 4th CA and request a stay there. this may go on for a while.

 

[pcfixer]

how can they say it's legally unmapped when all md's surrounding states allow concealed carry? Md seems like that kid in the class that refused to pay attention to directions because they were busy picking their nose and now wants the teacher to tell emm what they're supposed to be doing while everyone else is hard at work. "look around you at what everyone else is doing" seems like a good response.

HUH..

We need a "Stay", We were caught off guard.
Oh, BTW, If not a stay there will be "public safety will be curtailed".
this is causing administrative burden, and widespread confusion,
we need to retrain the staff.

Whinning.

 

[esqappellate]

Here's my question. I'm sorry if it has already been asked and answered. This thread is very long and I might have missed it. If we apply under the current application and the legislature changes the rules, wouldn't we still only have to meet the requirements set forth in the current application minus G&S?

Not necessarily. It depends on what the new legislation provided. The state could easily make the new rule apply to all pending applications. Indeed while a closer question, make it apply to existing permits. The idea of applying now is to present a practical and political reality to the state. Don't bet the rent money

 

[esqappellate]

Remember if Judge Legg refuses they will then run to the 4th CA and request a stay there. this may go on for a while.

Quite right