Wrenn PI Granted (DC Shall Issue)

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  • Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,201
    The argument about DC needing to file a stay, is that not moot now? Didn't DC beat them to the filing?
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Patrick - not sure if it's the attachment or Tapatalk, but the SAF link isn't working.

    The argument about DC needing to file a stay, is that not moot now?
    News suggests they filed one, but given the way reporters work they might have confused "we will file a motion to stay" with "we already asked for a stay".

    I haven't gone chasing it in PACER but even so it would probably take a day or two to show up. SAF distributes their motions as soon as they are filed. DC, not so much.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    "But... but..."

    It's all they've got
    I know what you are saying and agree.

    However...they do have the Heller II decision ('for the children and public safety and whatever the council sez must be true...') that is good boilerplate for their request. I actually had one of my snitches in the DC Mayor's Office send me some notes, purloined via a specially trained homing rat by way of a hooker delivering a white powdery substance to an office used by a certain ex-mayor (apparently they had an auto-delivery set up?).

    Anyway, here's what I got:

    DC's Outline (DC Attorney General Private Notes):

    I. This Sucks. It's just not natural.

    • I(a): DC Circuit sez this is 'teh suck' because: Heller II
    • I(b): It will not survive appeal because: sucky and unusual

    II. OMG!! Public Safety

    • II(a): Crime. We got it. Let's blame SAF.
    • II(b): The Chief swears that legal gun carriers will cause more crime. Because: guns
    • II(c): The Council agrees with the Chief. And if those guys say it, it must be true.

    III: Look at Me! We got a New Mayor!

    • III(a): We got a new mayor, and she needs this section as a vanity posting to justify her ego. So we will write some blather and attribute it to her, to make her feel better. (Note to staff: ...remember to request extra bagels in the 'gift basket' from Mayor's Office next week.)
    IV: We didn't appeal Palmer. You Owe Us.

    • IV(a): Look, we know the DC Circuit is the stepping stone to the big-boy court, or at least the best parties. That's why it's called, "The Cocktail Circuit".
    • IV(b): By not appealing Palmer, we didn't force you to perform legal back flips that would make a transgendered Russian gymnast competing in the 1984 Olympics proud. Oh, and it keeps those pesky RINO Senators off your ass in the event you ever get the nod and the NRA Terroristas demand they do their job in a confirmation hearing.
    • IV(c): You Owe Us (see above)
    • IV(d): We promise to slow-walk this thing in order to prevent you from feeling any real pain.

    V: That Gura guy. We've had enough of his jackassery and 'Bill of Rights'.


    • V(a): Nothing more. You know what to do (<cough>...'living text'... misread concealed carry dicta ... toss Scalia under the bus ...<cough>).
    Anyway, that's my guess. :)
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    The last page of the actual argument presentation is priceless....I can't do it any justice...

    Gura's Team said:
    10. As was seen in the related Palmer case, Defendants’ gamesmanship is boundless. In
    Palmer, having obtained a short stay by consent to enact a law that complied with constitutional
    standards, the District instead enacted the non-complying regime enjoined in this case, used the
    illusory licensing regime as an excuse to bar people from exercising their rights, waited until the last
    possible moment to appeal the Court’s decision, used that appeal as a reason to contest the Court’s
    jurisdiction, and having run out of briefing extensions from the Court of Appeals and been a denied a
    motion to stay their own appeal, thereafter dismissed that appeal. From July through the case’s
    disposition earlier this month, Defendants managed not to give Palmer any practical effect.
    11. The games continue. Defendants supposedly not understanding the Court’s order,
    they will ignore it. Of course, Defendants understand the order perfectly well. They simply dislike it.

    On May 26, 2015, counsel met and conferred regarding this motion. Defendants’ attorney declined to
    state what is ambiguous about the Court’s May 18 order, and offered only that “soon” there would be
    a filing discussing the matter.
    12. If Defendants want a 90 day stay of the Court’s injunction, they need to ask for one.
    There are requirements and standards—in other words, there is actual law that governs that process.
    For parties in this Court, let alone government officials, to unilaterally declare a 90 day “courtignoring”
    period upon issuance of a preliminary injunction is simply unacceptable.

    Bold is my arm chair lawyer analysis that says "look judge, these folks are being whiny little bitches about loosing." If it weren't blatantly fools in power playing with natural rights, it would make for a good George Carlin (god rest his soul) comedy routine.

    I will say, it seems as though the Gura and Possessky / SAF team are done holding back in filing court briefs. With Palmer & with Wren it seems they are done with playing nice and have adopted a semi-scotched earth legal toughness with their post adjudication maneuvering.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,201
    The last page of the actual argument presentation is priceless....I can't do it any justice...



    Bold is my arm chair lawyer analysis that says "look judge, these folks are being whiny little bitches about loosing." If it weren't blatantly fools in power playing with natural rights, it would make for a good George Carlin (god rest his soul) comedy routine.

    I will say, it seems as though the Gura and Possessky / SAF team are done holding back in filing court briefs. With Palmer & with Wren it seems they are done with playing nice and have adopted a semi-scotched earth legal toughness with their post adjudication maneuvering.

    Many Judges prefer the hyperbole remain exclusively from their side of the bench. That kind of stuff is fun sometimes, but other times can be self defeating. I don't see anything in this motion as "in your face", just some typical stuff exploring the edges. When people start mocking the other side or high fiving their own, it ends up, "wtf happened" more often than you'd imagine. Lets see what happens two weeks from now..
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    IMO, if I had to place bets, one of two possible outcomes:

    1) DC issues the permit and files an opposition stating the motion is moot, and that goes whether or not they have yet filed an appeal and a motion to the DC Circuit for a stay; or

    2) DC files their appeal within the time they have to oppose Gura's motion in the District, accompanied by a motion to stay, which will probably be granted and thereby moot Gura's motion.

    This is fun stuff, but likely calculated more to push DC along one way or another rather than with any expectation the motion will actually be granted. In other words, more likely intended to cut off the games by DC before they start playing them again.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    IMO, if I had to place bets, one of two possible outcomes:

    1) DC issues the permit and files an opposition stating the motion is moot, and that goes whether or not they have yet filed an appeal and a motion to the DC Circuit for a stay; or

    2) DC files their appeal within the time they have to oppose Gura's motion in the District, accompanied by a motion to stay, which will probably be granted and thereby moot Gura's motion.

    This is fun stuff, but likely calculated more to push DC along one way or another rather than with any expectation the motion will actually be granted. In other words, more likely intended to cut off the games by DC before they start playing them again.

    They still haven't filed their notice of appeal, but they now have requested a stay. And Gura filed an opposition the same day. He works hard. See attached.
     

    Attachments

    • Wrenn.StayMotion.pdf
      71.1 KB · Views: 154
    • Wrenn.OpptoStay.pdf
      61.6 KB · Views: 177

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    They still haven't filed their notice of appeal, but they now have requested a stay. And Gura filed an opposition the same day. He works hard. See attached.

    Thanks for the post. That's why I am not usually a betting man! :lol2: Perhaps I will double down by betting that Scullen will reject the stay requested in the District Court (as he did in Palmer), and let the DC Circuit decide on a stay if/when DC files its actual Notice of Appeal.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    No guarantees ever, but I think DC really effed the pooch yesterday by not giving the DC Instructor his carry card. I am betting they wrote that letter in haste, after he respectfully requested his permit per law. Not having any reason to deny a good man his right, they grasped at straws not knowing plaintiff counsel would be all over it.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    No guarantees ever, but I think DC really effed the pooch yesterday by not giving the DC Instructor his carry card. I am betting they wrote that letter in haste, after he respectfully requested his permit per law. Not having any reason to deny a good man his right, they grasped at straws not knowing plaintiff counsel would be all over it.
    I hate Tapatalk sometimes. I can't see the letter from DC or any of the recent attachments in this thread. :mad:
     

    nedsurf

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 8, 2013
    2,204
    Nice to read the opposition to the stay request. He played nicely in the beginning, letting the case to be slow walked without making much noise and playing along with the stay late last summer but it reads like the gloves are off at this point. I hope this means Gura is going for the TKO with the dope on the ropes.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    No guarantees ever, but I think DC really effed the pooch yesterday by not giving the DC Instructor his carry card. I am betting they wrote that letter in haste, after he respectfully requested his permit per law. Not having any reason to deny a good man his right, they grasped at straws not knowing plaintiff counsel would be all over it.

    Gura plays chess while DC continues to play connect four.

    DC did screw the pooch; all they needed to do was file their request for a stay, maybe even file their administrative stay request immediately. Instead, they got caught with their pants off (not just down), then tried to put them on while running out of the house with an angry father on their heels.

    How in the world can DC's counsel not stop to think that denying plaintiff a permit (or even applying the statue 90+90 day hold) not get nailed to the wall by the plaintiff and their attorney? Sure it is easy to sit here and 20/20 hindsight it, but this is kindergarten law application; yes?
     

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