Will the New York ruling ever take place in MD?

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  • Glaron

    Camp pureblood 13R
    BANNED!!!
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 20, 2013
    12,753
    Virginia
    Murder used to be against the law.
    Yeah I know. There is a little known phrase from old. "Thoult shalt not kill". Damn near forbidden these days. Btw, all the murders are confined to small well know areas. There are exceptions. One reason I rarely carry, but I can. I live in a carry zone therefore crime is low.
     

    DC-W

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,292
    ️‍
    Just to be clear, Whalen had previously been denied by the HPRB when it existed, appealed through court action before making it to the Court of Special Appeals and his denial being upheld over procedural issues (2A argument was not presented before HPRB).

    His current case is after a new application and another denial, the denial being upheld by the Office of Administrative Hearings, and then brought before Baltimore County Circuit Court where the case had been held in abeyance pending the outcome in Bruen.

    This document explains the history of the more recent case: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/...r-ct-petitioner-s-motion-for-summary-reversal
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    But didn't SCOTUS remand Bruen to a lower court for a compliant ruling? I'm not sure anything can really change until that happens.

    If it doesn't happen, then rinse, wash, repeat until an actual order is produced by some court.

    Meanwhile, Call v. Jones moves forward in light of Bruen. Maybe that will produce an actual order.
    You are correct.

    NYSRPA v Bruen did NOT produce an order that invalidated the Sullivan Act immediately and forthwith.

    That order will ultimately be issued by the 2nd CCA, and only after a second hearing in open court, with both sides presenting testimony, evidence, extensive briefings, and more testimony.

    Maryland was mentioned extensively in the lengthy opinion, and that will be noted by the 4th CCA and Baltimore County judges in the four pending 2A cases.

    Whalen will be first, but I think it unlikely that it will be written to apply to ALL pending and future applications for the HGP.

    Call will probably be the case that destroys Woolard forever.

    MSI v Hogan may eliminate the HQL monstrosity forever, and Bianchi - that shall probably dismantle the FSA of 2013.

    To be determined…
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,320
    And if all the intervening courts are hostile to NYSRPA decision?

    How long to get back to SCOTUS?

    I have no faith that the lower courts will abide by NYSRPA any more than they did with McDonald/Heller.
    Several big differences between Bruen and Heller/McDonald...

    1. a 6-3 majority v 5-4 (wavering majority)
    2. a very well spelled out test for the right. Under Heller/McDonald, the lower courts did whatever they wanted and SCOTUS didn't correct it. I think that changs under a 6-3 court and a more direct ruling on the test.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,320
    You are correct.

    NYSRPA v Bruen did NOT produce an order that invalidated the Sullivan Act immediately and forthwith.

    That order will ultimately be issued by the 2nd CCA, and only after a second hearing in open court, with both sides presenting testimony, evidence, extensive briefings, and more testimony.

    Maryland was mentioned extensively in the lengthy opinion, and that will be noted by the 4th CCA and Baltimore County judges in the four pending 2A cases.

    Whalen will be first, but I think it unlikely that it will be written to apply to ALL pending and future applications for the HGP.

    Call will probably be the case that destroys Woolard forever.

    MSI v Hogan may eliminate the HQL monstrosity forever, and Bianchi - that shall probably dismantle the FSA of 2013.

    To be determined…
    Correction - AWB....
     

    Kinetic

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 4, 2013
    749
    So, in consideration of everything written above, if someone has all of their ducks in a row for a carry permit, should they apply ASAP or wait for some of these decisions to come in?
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    So, in consideration of everything written above, if someone has all of their ducks in a row for a carry permit, should they apply ASAP or wait for some of these decisions to come in?
    Apply at your earliest convenience.

    Why wait for XMas?
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,360
    Anne Arundel County
    Just to be clear, Whalen had previously been denied by the HPRB when it existed, appealed through court action before making it to the Court of Special Appeals and his denial being upheld over procedural issues (2A argument was not presented before HPRB).

    His current case is after a new application and another denial, the denial being upheld by the Office of Administrative Hearings, and then brought before Baltimore County Circuit Court where the case had been held in abeyance pending the outcome in Bruen.

    This document explains the history of the more recent case: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/...r-ct-petitioner-s-motion-for-summary-reversal
    It's good that he's been through the entire process. So the court can't weasel their way out of rendering a decision by saying the plaintiff lacks standing due to his not having exhausted the administrative appeals process first.
     
    Last edited:

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    24,104
    I think Frosh is a fanatic. He will not meekly yield.

    Drunk with his power. The GA even managed to diminish what little power a supermajority had left Hogan, making Frosh perhaps the most politically powerful person in the state.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    26,722
    No patience, no waiting to see what happens. Sue them and sue them now. I saw the MSI guy say something to the effect they are “saving their powder” or something….for what exactly? Sue these Communists now


    At last count MSI had 7 live cases , up from 1 major case at a time back in the day .

    Major cases have retainers in the $50K range . So there has to be some degree of prioritizing . Set most important precedent , directly affect most people , or some combination .

    Give to MSI Legal Fund generously and often .
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    52,949
    Not in Montgomery any longer
    This is why Hogan made the announcement not Frosh. Frosh is retiring but Larry has more political aspirations and thinks this keeps his 2A Bona Fides

    We know better


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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