Will the New York ruling ever take place in MD?

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  • teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    As MSP has indicated that they are still using “good and substantial” can that be done now?

    Why wait if they are in blatant disregard of the SCOTUS ruling? I know they can issue a statement at any point to put themselves in compliance, but would it be helpful to further that along with a few lawsuits as soon as possible? I have not applied, and right now don’t have that discretionary income anyways, but some here might.
    G&S is unconstitutional as of the day the ruling was put out. This is Frosh's life work. It's crumbling. Schadenfreude.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,036
    Fulton, MD
    Any application that is denied right now based solely on lack of G&S has standing for a civil suit against the MSP Secretary in his personal and official capacity.

    Of course, before 6/23, no one has probably submitted an application without G&S.
     
    G&S is unconstitutional as of the day the ruling was put out. This is Frosh's life work. It's crumbling. Schadenfreude.
    Exactly, but they are still using it according to MSP. MSP are the issuing agents that are admittedly unconstitutionally not following the law. So why can’t someone file a suit against them immediately? Nobody like throwing money away, but it might show how serious people are about this.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    Any application that is denied right now based solely on lack of G&S has standing for a civil suit against the MSP Secretary in his personal and official capacity.

    Of course, before 6/23, no one has probably submitted an application without G&S.
    I agree. The 90 days people keep talking about is arbitrary. This applies to any permit after 6/23/2022.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    Exactly, but they are still using it according to MSP. MSP are the issuing agents that are admittedly unconstitutionally not following the law. So why can’t someone file a suit against them immediately? Nobody like throwing money away, but it might show how serious people are about this.
    Any permit issued after 6/23 with restrictions or denied because of lack of G&S will give the person standing.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    51,766
    Not in Montgomery any longer
    MSP has not taken an official position per their web site. I expect something tomorrow or Frosh stands a pretty good chance of being sued


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    MSP has not taken an official position per their web site. I expect something tomorrow or Frosh stands a pretty good chance of being sued


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I know that deep down inside, you want to see Frosh defy the courts....
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    Frosh is such a moron. He would be ok with mass murders continuing so he could brag he was right. He can't conceive of free people being armed could actually reduce crime simply by being armed.
    Everything he is saying is demonstrably false. 50% of the country is Constitutional Carry. Where is the incredible uptick in violence?
     

    Lalez

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 27, 2019
    206
    Russia
    Everything he is saying is demonstrably false. 50% of the country is Constitutional Carry. Where is the incredible uptick in violence?
    He needs to be in prison. A shame the MSP go along with this nonsense, hope they don’t piss themselves in uniform because some 50 year old woman can carry a p365 now
     

    Lalez

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 27, 2019
    206
    Russia
    Exactly, but they are still using it according to MSP. MSP are the issuing agents that are admittedly unconstitutionally not following the law. So why can’t someone file a suit against them immediately? Nobody like throwing money away, but it might show how serious people are about this.
    They should be sued right F’ing now. All of them

    No patience, no waiting to see what happens. Sue them and sue them now. I saw the MSI guy say something to the effect they are “saving their powder” or something….for what exactly? Sue these Communists now
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    They should be sued right F’ing now. All of them

    No patience, no waiting to see what happens. Sue them and sue them now. I saw the MSI guy say something to the effect they are “saving their powder” or something….for what exactly? Sue these Communists now
    Because of the limitless money MSI has to file lawsuits?
     

    Lalez

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 27, 2019
    206
    Russia
    Because of the limitless money MSI has to file lawsuits?
    Ok so live with unconstitutional laws, dunno what else to suggest

    Didn’t FPC or GOA already say they were going to sue in Maryland?

    Also WV and possibly the AG of VA now are considering suing Maryland for conceal carry reciprocity
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,318
    Bel Air
    Ok so live with unconstitutional laws, dunno what else to suggest

    Didn’t FPC or GOA already say they were going to sue in Maryland?
    I would suggest smart, targeted lawsuits. We are already waiting for the courts to rule on the GVRs from last week. That will cover a lot of this. AWB, G&S, magazine limits.
     

    SWO Daddy

    Active Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,301
    IIRC it is possible to petition the supreme court directly once the district court has issued a decision. As far as I am aware, that almost never gets taken up. I don't think it HAS to be decided by the appeals court again first. But if judges really, really, really wanted to F around with it, it could take 2-3 years to render a district court decision and then 2-3 years for an appeals court. And then it could take 1-2 years for the Supremes. I suspect though if the courts had the obvious taint of trying to drag out decisions contrary to the supreme court's instructions, SCOTUS would likely agree to hear it quickly. OR another option to is it takes 10 years for SCOTUS to hear it, but they can hear an injunction request on an expedited basis and issue an injunction against the law while it works its way through the court system for a decade. Shadow docket and all that.

    Most likely if courts aren't deliberately trying to slow the decision, 3-18 months at each level depending on how busy the courts are, how agreeable the attorney's involved are on scheduling, issuing responses to the court, etc.

    With these GVR'd cases, I expect it to take less than a year, even if the appeals court kicks it back to the district court rather than deciding themselves.

    Speaking of, looking at NY what what they just did to carry law and ammo/magazines. I would absolutely EXPECT that if any AWB get overturned a state like NY (and CA and HI and probably MD) would immediately turn around and say, fine! You can have your AWBs, but they have to all be registered, EVERYONE, registration has to be renewed annually at $1,000 a firearm, Class E felony to be in possession of one without a valid registration, oh and a 1,000% tax on each one sold. Plus each standard capacity magazine has to be registered at $200 a year.

    It is painfully obvious NY at least has no intention of abiding by the spirit OR the letter of the instructions from the court. The decision was extremely clear that what NY is attempting to do violates both. Now the RIGHT judge might uphold it. Or at least if they ruled against it, it would only be against parts and they'd also likely refuse to issue an injunction. Appeals court would probably be less likely to rule for the law and maybe slightly more likely to issue an injunction. SCOTUS is going to smack it down HARD.

    So at the very least, I absolutely expect SCOTUS to at least issue an injunction within a few weeks if the district and appeals courts refuse to. And I think most district and appeals courts are going to take this law apart based on SCOTUS new instructions (especially since there are a LOT of conservative federal judges right and even many of the liberal judges will good faith follow SCOTUS instructions).

    My fear is we don't have either a very strong Appeals court ruling, or better yet, a SCOTUS ruling on this before MGA starts up their session this winter and plays the same FAaFO game with us. At least our legislature seems mildly less inclined to try to F over everyone just to make a point and look at MD gun laws and the history of the being enacted compared to NY. NY likes to just ejaculate giant tranches of gun laws every few years trying to screw over gun owners as much as possible. MD had FSA2013 and...some incrementalism over the years. Though the current legislature sure seems more nuts than it has in years past.

    Do SCOTUS circuit assignments come into play with regards to an injunction or no? IE: Does the wise latina being assigned to the 2CA give NY more room for shenanigans? Will Frosh and the MGA be more restrained in their response with Roberts representing the 4th?
     
    Last edited:
    I would suggest smart, targeted lawsuits. We are already waiting for the courts to rule on the GVRs from last week. That will cover a lot of this. AWB, G&S, magazine limits.
    That’s exactly what I was wondering about. Target the ones who are breaking the law, especially after admitting to following unconstitutional law. Go after them specifically. As soon as possible.

    When we break laws we get to enjoy our fine legal system immediately. The same should go for them as well.
     

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