Who has piston AR platform?

[Racer Doug14]

According to a sales guy working at TMGN, DI is a thing of the past and is being phased out. The industry is headed piston. This was a few months ago.

I didn't realize piston was growing so fast. Interesting info.

That's funny.
Must have a pile of over priced piston rifles.

 

[camo556]

well, 3 of 3 of the squad next generation rifles under consideration are piston. Sig submitted a version of their MCX (short stroke piston). General dynamics is a long stroke piston bullpup. Textron is also piston.

So, TMGN sales guy may not be wrong.

 

[omegared24]

well, 3 of 3 of the squad next generation rifles under consideration are piston. Sig submitted a version of their MCX (short stroke piston). General dynamics is a long stroke piston bullpup. Textron is also piston.

So, TMGN sales guy may not be wrong.

You may want to call BCM, SOLGW, FCD, Colt, etc and let them know.

And the sales guy is a hipster idiot.

 

[omegared24]

That's funny.
Must have a pile of over priced piston rifles.

That's the money maker for them. Yet every time I walk in with a SOCOM or an interesting DI build they drool all over it and ask to shoot my relics.

 

[teratos]

According to a sales guy working at TMGN, DI is a thing of the past and is being phased out. The industry is headed piston. This was a few months ago.

I didn't realize piston was growing so fast. Interesting info.

He’s got a friend in the industry.

 

[woodline]

well, 3 of 3 of the squad next generation rifles under consideration are piston. Sig submitted a version of their MCX (short stroke piston). General dynamics is a long stroke piston bullpup. Textron is also piston.

So, TMGN sales guy may not be wrong.

Regular mil is switching to piston because it is a better system for them. I wish it were not the case, but based on my experience with big Army that is largely because they can’t help themselves from over cleaning weapons, and piston actions stay cleaner where the white glove inspections tend to look. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Either way pistons have good PR and there is nothing wrong with them.

Ironically, SOF is moving away from piston guns and back to DI.

 

[camo556]

You may want to call BCM, SOLGW, FCD, Colt, etc and let them know.

And the sales guy is a hipster idiot.

Colt got bought by CZ, so they are officially hipster now.

Nobody knows what the DOD will pick, but if they pick a piston (which seems likely) once they start putting out government contracts, suddenly everyone will be building pistons and 6.8x51 piston carbines will be the new hot thing.

 

[camo556]

Regular mil is switching to piston because it is a better system for them. I wish it were not the case, but based on my experience with big Army that is largely because they can’t help themselves from over cleaning weapons, and piston actions stay cleaner where the white glove inspections tend to look. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Either way pistons have good PR and there is nothing wrong with them.

Ironically, SOF is moving away from piston guns and back to DI.

idk about cleanliness, but the NGSW ammo specs are spicy. SAMMI specs are 80,000 psi. That kind of pressure probably would cause all sorts of challenges in a DI gun. Putting a piston in between the bolt carrier and 80,000 psi makes some sense too.

 

[omegared24]

Colt got bought by CZ, so they are officially hipster now.

Nobody knows what the DOD will pick, but if they pick a piston (which seems likely) once they start putting out government contracts, suddenly everyone will be building pistons and 6.8x51 piston carbines will be the new hot thing.

Did you read the solicitation? What are they planning on replacing? Are all branches adopting it or just specific sectors of these branches?

Feel free to send the link from sam.gov and I'll read it if you're not familiar with the process. I'm in Government contracting and read solicitations daily.

 

[smokey]

DI guns are pistons... the piston is just the bolt and the carrier is the cylinder. It's the nature of semi-autos that aren't some form of delayed blowback that they'll have a piston somewhere to operate the gun. ARs are cool because the reciprocating mass of the piston is in direct line with the bore and the only thing really dicking around with barrel harmonics is the gas tube/block.. not a big piston cachunkachunking back and forth on it. DI guns are extremely reliable, with just a need for squirting lube in every once in a while if they start getting sluggish. The "the bcg on piston guns stays clean" thing is silly. The piston still gets plenty dirty, it's just out under the handguard now instead of stuck in the bcg... along with all that heat to keep your hands nice and toasty.

If you're going to go with a "piston gun", just go with a gun designed to actually be a piston gun. Scoop up a tavor, xcr, or sig mcx. SCARs are now cool again since the charging handles are not reciprocating anymore. They'll all have things a modified AR wont have, like folding stocks, a more compact bullpup design, and broader aftermarket support(piston ARs run into compatibility issues when swapping things like handguards).

 

[Racer Doug14]

I can see DOD buying more expensive piston rifles. It's not their money. I can also see that bigger calibers might benefit from a piston system. Most 7.62×51s are, with the AR10 being the outlier. In a 5.56 rifle it adds weight, with very little benefits. I'm speaking of AR15 based piston rifles. Smokey brings up good points above.

 

[GolfR]

I’m not sure I understand the lure behind piston guns. I have both varieties, specifically I have a BRN180 and many DI guns. The only thing I really see as an advantage for piston guns is if you are going to suppress. There is a definite advantage in gas to the face in this instance. Otherwise, the AR platform runs great as a DI gun and for competitions, 3 gun and other applications, I don’t think there is a piston advantage. You end up with more weight out front where you don’t want it, the handguard gets hotter, parts are not interchangeable and sometimes not readily available, etc. Oh yeah, then there is the added cost of a piston gun.

These are just my informed opinions, take them as such!

 

[woodline]

idk about cleanliness, but the NGSW ammo specs are spicy. SAMMI specs are 80,000 psi. That kind of pressure probably would cause all sorts of challenges in a DI gun. Putting a piston in between the bolt carrier and 80,000 psi makes some sense too.

That is certainly true, and sadly it looks like Sig is going to win it with their offering. Of the three, I think it offered the least advancements, and it doesn’t do nearly as much to mitigate the pressures involved.

Did you read the solicitation? What are they planning on replacing? Are all branches adopting it or just specific sectors of these branches?

Feel free to send the link from sam.gov and I'll read it if you're not familiar with the process. I'm in Government contracting and read solicitations daily.

This isn’t specifically what you’re looking for, but here’s the NGSW landing page. You can probably get enough to navigate to where you want to be from there:

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/fws-cs-2/

 

[woodline]

Colt got bought by CZ, so they are officially hipster now.

Nobody knows what the DOD will pick, but if they pick a piston (which seems likely) once they start putting out government contracts, suddenly everyone will be building pistons and 6.8x51 piston carbines will be the new hot thing.

I genuinely look forward to watching people try to “operate” with 3000+ fps 140gr projectiles screaming out of short barrels on YouTube. I want to say the original solicitation specified 3400 fps, but then they modified it to 3000 or 3100 fps.

Either way, my shoulder is happy with intermediate cartridges.

 

[camo556]

I genuinely look forward to watching people try to “operate” with 3000+ fps 140gr projectiles screaming out of short barrels on YouTube. I want to say the original solicitation specified 3400 fps, but then they modified it to 3000 or 3100 fps.

Either way, my shoulder is happy with intermediate cartridges.

Yeah the guntubers will have to change barrels more often than GoPro batteries.

Part of me thinks that they will tame it further, because of barrel burnout. But the other part of me is like the DOD likes spending other peoples money so they dont care.

Sig actually filed a SAMMI spec for 277 Sig Fury, so they must be pretty confident.

 

[woodline]

Yeah the guntubers will have to change barrels more often than GoPro batteries.

Part of me thinks that they will tame it further, because of barrel burnout. But the other part of me is like the DOD likes spending other peoples money so they dont care.

Sig actually filed a SAMMI spec for 277 Sig Fury, so they must be pretty confident.

My money is on it eventually settling in at 2700 fps out of a 16” barrel. So 30-06 with better sectional density and ballistic coefficient. Or it’ll get tossed the first time someone has to do CQB with it and manages to blow through about three brick walls. Pretty confident this is going to be the new M14 but with really awesome optics.

If they could get 2700 fps out of a 6mm 90-100ish grain projectile in a 12.5” barrel from an AR sized firearm, I would be really impressed. Maybe 6mm ARC can do that? Anyway completely separate discussion about what I want, which shockingly no one in the Army asked me about.

 

[AssMan]

I have the Sig 516. Other than the little bit of extra weight, it's ****!

 

[camo556]

My money is on it eventually settling in at 2700 fps out of a 16” barrel. So 30-06 with better sectional density and ballistic coefficient. Or it’ll get tossed the first time someone has to do CQB with it and manages to blow through about three brick walls. Pretty confident this is going to be the new M14 but with really awesome optics.

If they could get 2700 fps out of a 6mm 90-100ish grain projectile in a 12.5” barrel from an AR sized firearm, I would be really impressed. Maybe 6mm ARC can do that? Anyway completely separate discussion about what I want, which shockingly no one in the Army asked me about.

The hamster wheel of the DOD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.276_Pedersen

 

[Racer Doug14]

My brother has a LWRC, but it's never been fired. A lot of his guns have that problem. LOL
I have a friend that have a SIG516 and MCX Veritas. He's shot them a bunch. Zero issues.

In regard to .gov/DOD. The military is suppressing their rifles a lot more now. So, a piston system makes good sense.

 

[omegared24]

He’s got a friend in the industry.

Lol...possibly.

I'm not anti piston. But as mentioned, they typically work best if the gun is designed for it. I also can't stand that people spread fiction. DI isn't going anywhere and the government isn't going to make piston the standard any time soon. Companies have tried in the past and it's not a compelling argument.

Adcor is a great example.