TRACT Optics

When an officer says drop your weapon, you better listen to him.

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  • JohnnyE

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    5,514
    MoCo
    Unfortunately all too common for plainclothes/ undercover/ off duty LE to be shot by responding uniform officers .
    Is this circumstance similar to the Columbus, Ohio situation some months back where Columbus uniformed officers responded to a man with a gun outside a residence call, and the man turned out to be a plain-clothed fed, and the fed got cuffed because he just expected the officers to believe him when he said he was a fed before dropping the gun? Got to do things in the correct order.
    See Dick
    See Dick drink
    See Dick pull
    See Dick shot
    Don't be a Dick
    The most recent in a lengthy and esteemed body of work, I nominate eruby for MDS resident poet laurite!
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,562
    Wow- 10 times with .45s, he is one tuff SOB!
    10 wounds. The police spokesman made clear they don't know the hits. Several them are, or could be through and through. And possible to have a through and through on an extremity and entering the chest.

    More likely ~4-6 hits with multiple entrance and exit wounds. Only one wound on the chest.

    Don't get me wrong, still not terrible shooting in a very tense situation. But it adds to the "Police aren't always good shots in tense situations. It looks like the officer shot from around 8-10yds distance and only one bullet his center of mass and he fired at least 7 shots rapidly by my count. Maybe 8? Maybe it was 6. So almost nothing center mass, and possibly/probably one or more missed entirely.

    Though unclear if other officers shot also.

    One did jump right into the line of fire.
     

    Kman

    Peace is underrated
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,265
    Eastern shore
    24/7 bars in Saratoga Springs?

    Their should be a law against that.
    I don't think so. And I don't go to bars.
    Restricting bars/booze from people seems like restricting firearms and carrying from people. I think it elevates lawmakers to a massa status and lowers citizens to subhuman animals incapable of self control.
    Just me though.
     

    babalou

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    13,471
    Monkey County
    Wonder if NY prevents carry in barrooms for all except LEOSA

    actually depending on how many times the on duty officer hit him thats poor shooting by LEO standards.If the 10 hits were from the on duty officer aiming for center mass, and the target is conscious and expected to survive, that’s really poor shooting. Unless they are trained to wound or the ballistics of those rounds they use suck…
    either up in the air or the knees, right? :)
     

    JoeyBimmer

    Member
    Jul 22, 2020
    378
    Eldersburg MD
    I don't think so. And I don't go to bars.
    Restricting bars/booze from people seems like restricting firearms and carrying from people. I think it elevates lawmakers to a massa status and lowers citizens to subhuman animals incapable of self control.
    Just me though.
    Yup.

    Let freedom ring.

    They only close when folks leave.

    You can run bartenders in shifts if needed.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    27,589
    Is this circumstance similar to the Columbus, Ohio situation some months back where Columbus uniformed officers responded to a man with a gun outside a residence call, and the man turned out to be a plain-clothed fed, and the fed got cuffed

    Only in the broadest sense , and not really in that he didn't actually get hurt . That was more of a jurisdictional pissing contest .
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    13,424
    Where do you see 24/7?

    Many bars in New York are open until 3, or 4 am.

    This one is listed at 4 am on google maps:


    spacitytapandbarrel
    That is what they advertise, we went into a strip club in NYC at 5PM we left at 7AM because the bartender wanted to get breakfast.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,230
    Rockville, MD
    Don't get me wrong, still not terrible shooting in a very tense situation. But it adds to the "Police aren't always good shots in tense situations. It looks like the officer shot from around 8-10yds distance and only one bullet his center of mass and he fired at least 7 shots rapidly by my count. Maybe 8? Maybe it was 6. So almost nothing center mass, and possibly/probably one or more missed entirely.
    Sorry, 8-10 yds with a 50% hit rate on a human sized target is terrible shooting. It's even worse when you realize that it was on a public street, and those misses are flying down range full velocity. Pull the ******* trigger at a rate that gets you hits.
     

    spoon059

    Active Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    4,156
    You ever fire a gun when someone else is aiming or shooting back at you? I understand it's not easy, thankfully I don't have any experience outside of the training realm.

    Back in rookie school we shot each other with simunition rounds. It was hard to shoot accurately, while moving, under stress of pain (not death, just pain) with someone else shooting back at you. That was in a controlled training environment where you knew it was coming and you knew you were going home at 4, no matter the outcome.

    On the street, when you don't have time to mentally prepare and you don't know if you're going to get shot and you don't know if you're going to see your wife and kids again... I'd probably be a little less accurate too.



    Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk
     

    Garet Jax

    Not ignored by gamer_jim
    MDS Supporter
    May 5, 2011
    5,655
    Bel Air
    I don't think so. And I don't go to bars.
    Restricting bars/booze from people seems like restricting firearms and carrying from people. I think it elevates lawmakers to a massa status and lowers citizens to subhuman animals incapable of self control.
    Just me though.

    This. Leave business decisions up to the business. Regulating them gives gov't unnecessary control.
     

    Garet Jax

    Not ignored by gamer_jim
    MDS Supporter
    May 5, 2011
    5,655
    Bel Air
    Sorry, 8-10 yds with a 50% hit rate on a human sized target is terrible shooting. It's even worse when you realize that it was on a public street, and those misses are flying down range full velocity. Pull the ******* trigger at a rate that gets you hits.

    Disagree. Pull the trigger at the rate that stops the threat ASAP so you can go home at night.
     

    Garet Jax

    Not ignored by gamer_jim
    MDS Supporter
    May 5, 2011
    5,655
    Bel Air
    You ever fire a gun when someone else is aiming or shooting back at you? I understand it's not easy, thankfully I don't have any experience outside of the training realm.

    Back in rookie school we shot each other with simunition rounds. It was hard to shoot accurately, while moving, under stress of pain (not death, just pain) with someone else shooting back at you. That was in a controlled training environment where you knew it was coming and you knew you were going home at 4, no matter the outcome.

    On the street, when you don't have time to mentally prepare and you don't know if you're going to get shot and you don't know if you're going to see your wife and kids again... I'd probably be a little less accurate too.



    Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk

    I can only imagine the stress involved. There is just no way to simulate the real thing.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,230
    Rockville, MD
    Disagree. Pull the trigger at the rate that stops the threat ASAP so you can go home at night.
    Really? So it doesn't matter if you launch a bunch of rounds into an urban area to hit who knows what as long as you stopped the threat? Sorry, not buying it.
     

    Garet Jax

    Not ignored by gamer_jim
    MDS Supporter
    May 5, 2011
    5,655
    Bel Air
    Really? So it doesn't matter if you launch a bunch of rounds into an urban area to hit who knows what as long as you stopped the threat? Sorry, not buying it.

    Yes really. This is why training is so important.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,230
    Rockville, MD
    Yes really. This is why training is so important.
    I would certainly agree that training is important.

    The stress of a real gunfight is certainly something that should not be discounted, and perhaps I should have been a little more understanding of it; on the other hand, you can train under stress to help with that somewhat.
     

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