What did you learn at your Wear & Carry training class that you didn't know before attending?

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  • 4g64loser

    collector of fine .22s
    Jan 18, 2007
    2,769
    maryland
    Thanks for the important clarification.
    You are welcome. These are the extremes. The reality is usually somewhere in between. And always messy. Some of our resident legal eagles can chime in but I am unaware of a definite answer on whether a sign prominently displayed on or adjacent an entrance constitutes proper notification/consent. Some businesses have warnings about video and/or audio recording on the premises but I don't know how much water that holds in md courts, especially wrt to audio.

    I can say that a sign on your property that you are taping won't hold up well. A friend wanted to use the audio from his cameras (indoor) in a civil action and was not allowed. Some video was, but limited.
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    28,841
    Well found another thing that was wrong in the class… we were told you could only carry 10 round mags +1 in the chamber. I called out that the law stated you couldn’t buy, transfer, sell anything that holds more than 10 rounds and that it doesn’t state anything about using or carrying mags that hold more than 10 rounds. I was shut down and told multiple times you can’t carry more than 10+1. Didn’t help that I showed the law.

    I was just catching up on the thread about the zoom call on 8/4 and they said the call confirmed you could carry any mag capacity you wanted…. So another incorrect training statement.

    Post in thread 'To those joining the MSP zoom meeting just use the join meeting button'
    https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/...e-the-join-meeting-button.267507/post-6737082
    Yup, that was in our class too. It's frustrating that people have repeatedly proven these things wrong, and they're still in their classes. That and the hour long sales pitch for carry insurance... sign up today or pass up our special promotional price... kind've annoyed at that.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,371
    Bel Air
    You are welcome. These are the extremes. The reality is usually somewhere in between. And always messy. Some of our resident legal eagles can chime in but I am unaware of a definite answer on whether a sign prominently displayed on or adjacent an entrance constitutes proper notification/consent. Some businesses have warnings about video and/or audio recording on the premises but I don't know how much water that holds in md courts, especially wrt to audio.

    I can say that a sign on your property that you are taping won't hold up well. A friend wanted to use the audio from his cameras (indoor) in a civil action and was not allowed. Some video was, but limited.
    Yet the cops use Ring doorbell footage all the time. This law violates my First Amendment and needs changing.
     

    4g64loser

    collector of fine .22s
    Jan 18, 2007
    2,769
    maryland
    Yet the cops use Ring doorbell footage all the time. This law violates my First Amendment and needs changing.
    But.....but.....cops.....and the good if society!!!!

    In all seriousness, the distinction my attorney made is the public access thing. While it's not very well defined, the general thing seems to be inside home/controlled access location, you need affirmative consent to use what you get in court. In the instance I refer to, the audio specifically incriminated my friend's soon to be ex wife and would have been instrumental in proving perjury. Excluded.
     

    rbird7282

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    14,661
    When they first opened, I gave them a resume and nothing came from it obviously. I think even back then they were ensconced in their ways of fail.
    Maybe we should do an MDS fund to send you to their W&C class for fun. We would need it all on tape of course.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    39,688
    Glen Burnie
    Maybe we should do an MDS fund to send you to their W&C class for fun. We would need it all on tape of course.
    I think at one point early on, her mother was working the counter. She was trying to tell me something which was blatantly wrong and I just walked out ignoring her.
    I don't have all the answers, but I don't have the wrong answers.

    It'd be funny if one class was just all of us from here.
     

    pitpawten

    Active Member
    Jan 28, 2013
    1,357
    Informed at class: If involved in a defensive shooting, place your gun on the ground out of your reach while waiting for police to arrive so they don't take you for a threat when they arrive.

    My thought was that id rather have it secured on my person than lying unsecured out of my reach, though not in my hands.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,102
    Does she enforce the imaginary laws she teaches?
    And that is what worries me some is the bad advice from Ex-cops. Including "the law says you must do X. Or you can't do Y".

    Yes, police have to have a good faith belief you are committing a crime and what that crime is.

    Doesn't mean they aren't wrong that what is going on is a crime. Of course, sometimes that is INTENTIONAL and they know it (see seized/smashed phones/cameras and arrests for recording police). I am sure many times it is not intentional and just ignorance. Sure it gets sorted out in the end, but doesn't mean you don't now have an arrest record as well as hours of wasted time and a really bad day.

    "it is illegal to carry >10 round magazines" as an example.
     

    bbrown

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2009
    2,898
    MD
    Holster it.
    I asked my trainer this specific question during my HGP training class, and before I finished he said the same. You don't want any bad guy to get access to it while you're pre-occupied with the aftermath.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    39,688
    Glen Burnie
    I asked my trainer this specific question during my HGP training class, and before I finished he said the same. You don't want any bad guy to get access to it while you're pre-occupied with the aftermath.
    Not just that, but the cops need to get a handle on the actual situation, and then to have to "prone out" a good guy while the pistol gets secured, takes away from precious resources for the incident at hand.
     

    Vatreni4Life

    Junior Member
    Sep 24, 2021
    74
    HoCo
    Yup, but some of the stuff is more easily refuted than others. RIP rounds being "cop killer bullets designed to go through vests"... easy AF to refute. "You can't carry mags that hold >10 rounds in md"... you can easily cite statutes to refute. "This is a concealed carry license and it's illegal to carry open or to print"... again, citing statutes can easily prove this wrong. For the issue of locking up guns in the car for wear, carry, or transport permit holders... it's a little more murky.

    Sad to say my w&c instructor said the same thing, more than 10 round mag= minimum 5 years and/or 5k in fines. That’s the mandatory mimimim! Smfh
     

    Vatreni4Life

    Junior Member
    Sep 24, 2021
    74
    HoCo
    She told my class that scenario too. I responded, "I'd likely be there with my kids, so I would grab them, and get out because my responsibility is to them". She said the exits are blocked and there's no path to escape. I then said, "in that case, I'd have them get as low a possible and put my oldest in charge of my backpack with the iiia panel. Then I'd figure out how to address the threat". She pressed, "how exactly". I said, "It's hugely situationally dependent, but I'd do my best to use the seats as concealment while working to clear an open background and foreground to put shots on the threat". She dismissed that, saying it would be too dark to see... to which I shined a flashlight in the corner of the room.

    Her conclusion to THAT scenario was that it's unlawful to use your gun with that many innocent people around, but it's her character to run to badguys, so she'd leave her gun holstered and run to fight the gunman with bare hands.... so about the worst advice possible.

    She also gave the scenario, "you're in the arundel mills food court and a gunfight erupts between the man sitting next to you and a man across the food court about 40 yards away(this class was before dicken). The man next to you is hit and his gun runs dry. He says he's a fed and the other guy continues firing in your direction. There's nothing for cover. What do you do".

    I said it's again situationally dependent, but if you have a gun, you have cover because if you have a clear foreground and background, firing itself at the threat is a form of cover to use for movement. She later said that would be illegal(to fire back at the man firing at you??). I also said I couldn't directly render aid to the fed until the threat was dealt with, but I could toss him my tourniquet or hemostatic gauze for self-aid and see if I could drag him to cover(likely a structural column) when it made sense to do so.

    She joked that nobody ever carries a tq and she has never carried a tq. I pulled mine out from my cargo pocket and said people should if they're carrying a gun.

    Her conclusion was you should ask the fed what he needs and give him your carry gun. Fun times.
    Hmmmmm she meaning the instructor? I think I know who your talking about… Alicia Keys has a song that describes this lady precisely( you old guys look up the musical artist LOL)
     

    rbird7282

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    14,661
    I think at one point early on, her mother was working the counter. She was trying to tell me something which was blatantly wrong and I just walked out ignoring her.
    I don't have all the answers, but I don't have the wrong answers.

    It'd be funny if one class was just all of us from here.

    That would be hilarious. We could just go around the room taking turns correcting them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    …. I feel that you should have at least some training before you go to a concealed carry class.
    Maryland doesn’t issue a concealed carry permit. The Handgun Permits allow you to carry your handgun anyway you wish.

    Discrete carry in a secure, good quality holster is ideal.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    I already know how to shoot and do not need basic firearms training. I would like to take a 16 hour W&C class that focuses on MD gun laws including appropriate circumstances for the use of force, producing a pistol from concealment, and other topics related to the specifics of W&C. Those needing a firearms 101 class should get that elsewhere.
    Better idea: take the NRA Basic Pistol INSTRUCTOR class (coincidently about 16 hours) and become a QHIC instructor yourself.


    Once you have your Instructor’s Certificate, you’ll be training exempt for the HGP and HQL, and your permit will be issued.

    Finding your advanced training can happen before or after the NRA course is completed.
     

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