What are the firearm requirements for wear and carry class?

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  • RRomig

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,942
    Burtonsville MD
    Whats contradictory is some of the people posting believe in constitutional carry yet also support additional qualification restrictions set by instructors.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,644
    White Marsh, MD
    In my opinion, the objective is to get people qualified. Police academies and FLETC have 60, 80, 100 hours or so to work with recruits prior to attempting to qualify. Trainers have 16 hours to get them to pass just one aspect of the course, the qualification. There’s so much more that goes into a Wear & Carry course than just that. The .22 provides an economical way to meet the objective, so it makes good business sense as well. Once the student is qualified to carry, the responsible thing to do would be to go and get plenty of trigger time on their handgun of choice.


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    THIS
     

    Old-School Mark

    My pronouns: Me, Myself and I.
    Jan 23, 2023
    355
    Silver Spring
    In my opinion, the objective is to get people qualified. Police academies and FLETC have 60, 80, 100 hours or so to work with recruits prior to attempting to qualify. Trainers have 16 hours to get them to pass just one aspect of the course, the qualification. There’s so much more that goes into a Wear & Carry course than just that. The .22 provides an economical way to meet the objective, so it makes good business sense as well. Once the student is qualified to carry, the responsible thing to do would be to go and get plenty of trigger time on their handgun of choice.


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    I totally agree with this. The only trouble is, many people won’t make that effort and will simply do the minimum required.

    Since an instructors endorsement is the applicant’s stamp of approval, he is basically putting his reputation on the line, stating the applicant is qualified to carry a firearm. It’s much like a doctor signing a document stating a patient is qualified to participate in some sport. If the patient tells the doctor he wants to play on a golf team, but the doctor gets the idea that the patient wants to participate in MMA, well, the doctor has the right to say no.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,538
    Glen Burnie
    A friend of mine is a retired LEO. Apparently, in MD, his certification is limited to a semi-auto since that’s what he qualifies with. If he wants to carry a revolver, he’d need to qualify with one first. He said the state didn’t budget for two separate qualifications though. That’s just what he told me anyway.
    It's not a MD certification, It's LEOSA. We have to qualify once a year. LEOSA law says "firearm", so technically we could carry both in the eyes of the Federal Government. Maryland separates it from revolver and semi. For those who uses Sykesville for the qual, we pay 50 bucks and use our own ammo, so it isn't a budget thing. They just don't want to take the time to run people through twice.
    When I lived in PA, the guy I used for my LEOSA qual had qual cards that just said I qualified with a firearm.
    Charles County SO actually took the time to qual people both on qual day. I think we paid them 100 bucks.

    This is the reason why I got my W&C, in case I want to throw a revolver in my pocket or in the even I cannot do my LEOSA qual for 1 reason or another.
     
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    Old-School Mark

    My pronouns: Me, Myself and I.
    Jan 23, 2023
    355
    Silver Spring
    It's not a MD certification, It's LEOSA. We have to qualify once a year. LEOSA law says "firearm", so technically we could carry both in the eyes of the Federal Government. Maryland separates it from revolver and semi. For those who uses Sykesville for the qual, we pay 50 bucks and use our own ammo, so it isn't a budget thing. They just don't want to take the time to run people through twice.
    When I lived in PA, the guy I used for my LEOSA qual had qual cards that just said I qualified with a firearm.
    Charles County SO actually took the time to qual people both on qual day. I think we paid them 100 bucks.

    This is the reason why I got my W&C, in case I want to throw a revolver in my pocket or in the even I cannot do my LEOSA qual for 1 reason or another.
    Thank you. I could have sworn that I included that it was a LEOSA qualification. I guess it was implied, but I didn’t write it. And by “budget”, I was including time since the proctors aren’t doing this for free.
    I appreciate the feedback.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,538
    Glen Burnie
    Thank you. I could have sworn that I included that it was a LEOSA qualification. I guess it was implied, but I didn’t write it. And by “budget”, I was including time since the proctors aren’t doing this for free.
    I appreciate the feedback.
    You're welcome!
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,081
    Whats contradictory is some of the people posting believe in constitutional carry yet also support additional qualification restrictions set by instructors.

    Ok , I am compartmentalized , to the point of potentially seeming schizophrenic on this , with recomended goals of ( competencies for the reasonably physically fit ) vs Fundimental Freaking Rights & poll taxes and dicrimination thereof .

    So , I'll take still another ( imperfect ) stab at an illiustration : Motor Vehicle Operation .

    Their is a State Mandated Driver Ed curriculum . It justifiably is the punchline of a thousand jokes , but the piece of paper is a required checkmark .

    There are a plethora of trainers for Advanced Defensive Driving , Off Road Driving , and intro to various racing competitions .

    The two don't frequently pretend to be the same unitary thing .

    If someone has the Shooting Skills of John Shaw , and the instructional abilities of Bill Rodgers , they will have waiting lists of people just wanting to soak up knowledge .

    Meanwhile , there are multiple legitimate reason to deal with the minimum infringement possible .

    MSP mentions " show competence " , but also sets their own interpretation of what that means - Make 18 holes in a B-27 , while simultaneously not shooting themselves in the foot .

    For a class combing both , have potentially dual certification :

    Only meet Maryland Standards , only recieve the Maryland Permission Slip .

    Meet all the additional requirements , also receive a Acme Tactical Institute Intermediate Defensive Handgun Certificate of Completion .
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,235
    Outside the Gates
    There is no requirement to not shoot themselves in the foot. 18 of 25 is passing, regardless of where the other 7 go.
     

    Gun Commander

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Jan 13, 2023
    187
    Arnold, MD
    And another thing… Lol, the good thing is, the people have options. The challenge is getting the word out as to which instructors are “good” and which are not. And that’s all a matter of opinion.

    In my classes, I put a lot of effort into teaching people how to conceal the gun, come out of the holster, and the decision making process of when to shoot. Just to name a few topics I cover. Then, for my “above and beyond” the minimum state standards, I have the students practice the course of fire from the holster (which is not required for the test) in half the prescribed time, and on a target a fraction of the size of a B27. And everyone does it with ease. By the time we get to the live fire qualification, they get the full sized B27, and the full allotted time. Granted, it is done on a G44, but the objective was met.

    Now, as for recoil management, I address it in class when I cover the fundamentals. That’s all I can do in a 16 hour course. But that’s also why I offer plenty of courses people can take outside of the HQL and Wear & Carry, as well as private lessons.


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    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,640
    Columbia
    Whats contradictory is some of the people posting believe in constitutional carry yet also support additional qualification restrictions set by instructors.

    There are several around here that are just fine with state mandated training, restrictions, and would be ok with more. I have no idea why


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    LAC_MD

    Active Member
    Oct 18, 2022
    703
    Towson
    Well you don't need stopping power for a qual. A noob certainly isn't into shooting so much as to get into a 5.7, because of sticker shock. And it's not the best carry pistol as far as holsters and size.
    The military doesn't start recruits out on 22, neither does any police academy. Fletc starts students out on 9mm or what their agency carries.
    Starting out on .22 is a waste of time.
    Not saying stopping power for the qualification. Stopping power is about real world application when carrying. Most that use .22 to qualify are fearing the 9mm recoil. The 5.7 offers measurably less recoil for qualification…
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,538
    Glen Burnie
    Not saying stopping power for the qualification. Stopping power is about real world application when carrying. Most that use .22 to qualify are fearing the 9mm recoil. The 5.7 offers measurably less recoil for qualification…
    And IMMENSELY more expensive. I'd venture to say that anyone with a 5.7 will have a .22. Might as well use the .22.
    Fearing recoil is ridiculous. People should take a class before their WC class. People act like recoil is breaking wrists out there lol
     

    LAC_MD

    Active Member
    Oct 18, 2022
    703
    Towson
    And IMMENSELY more expensive. I'd venture to say that anyone with a 5.7 will have a .22. Might as well use the .22.
    Fearing recoil is ridiculous. People should take a class before their WC class. People act like recoil is breaking wrists out there lol
    I am probably the exception. Don’t own a .22, but love the 5.7x28. I buy in bulk so I pay @.67 cent per round. Recoil wise lower the recoil the quicker you can put follow up shots on target. To each his own. Having guns chambered in 5.7,9mm,40,45 acp, 45GAP, 10 and 357sig the 5.7 is quickly becoming my favorite.
     
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    FN509Fan

    Ultimate Member
    Don't know if I'd ever go for it but what about light 9mm handloads to qualify if recoil is the perceived issue?
    I typically shoot at indoor ranges and don't think I've ever shot at anything 15 yards away. It takes too long for the target to get down range. I do most my shooting under 5 yards, trying to hit circles on targets that are 2" dia or under. My S&W 625 will tear one ragged hole, most of my semi autos won't.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,235
    Outside the Gates
    Almost no instructors allow handloads. The lack of reliability slows classes down.

    I instruct students NOT to bring reloaded ammo, commercial or home. If they do, they get no warm up and only 2 attempts for the qualification.
     

    Boats

    Broken Member
    Mar 13, 2012
    4,104
    Howeird County
    Their business, their rules

    These are RIGHTS, not privileges. If elected lawmakers aren't allowed to place arbitrary restrictions on who or what can be carried, I'd expect the same from a private business owner, especially when he/she is acting as an agent of the state.

    Dont believe me? Try firing someone because they are a minority. Rights are rights.
    I may have disliked the rules when I had to go get a cert to teach on a contract (they were in addition to the fed standards and specific to the instructor/facility qualifying us) but that's what I had to deal with.

    There is no enumerated right to be a contract teacher.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,081
    * Thread Shift * !!!! Shifting from discussing Fundimental Right gatekeeping , to conversing with experienced shooter about range shooting for fun & skill building .

    Duuuude ! ( Tongue in cheek , applied in specific context) Too long for automated target holder to travel more than 5 yards ? Patience young grasshopper , delay your gratification for an extra 10 seconds .

    Yes indeed , placing very precise shots at " closer " range does involve Marksmanship skills . Think pursuing one hole groups @ 7 yds .

    I am encouraged in your pursuing trigger control and sighting to have capability to shoot accurately if/ when needed , and not rationalizing " ehh , self defense will be up close , so spraying at arms length is all I need " .

    But for part of your shooting sessions , stretch it out , you're ready for that next step .

    So Biggfoot , what's a suitable distance for informal shooting to have fun you ask ? About 10 yds , maybe a little more , the exact not critical . Not overly intimidating . Still able to do that rapid shooting and keep on target . But far enough to keep you honest , and easier to easily see the effect of fine tuning your technique , illiustrating your personal relationship between speed and accuracy , etc .
     

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,475
    maryland
    These are RIGHTS, not privileges. If elected lawmakers aren't allowed to place arbitrary restrictions on who or what can be carried, I'd expect the same from a private business owner, especially when he/she is acting as an agent of the state.

    Dont believe me? Try firing someone because they are a minority. Rights are rights.


    There is no enumerated right to be a contract teacher.
    So by your logic (and I normally agree with your posts) any business that refuses to take cash (legal for all debts public and private) is wrong? I'm for that. Any business that doesn't allow you to say whatever you want to on their premises is wrong? Maybe not.

    I don't teach wear and carry, but do have the credentials. If I do so, it is as a private business. I am not an agent of the state. If I were dragging skips back to county on warrants, that would be as an agent of the state.

    I bring up the example of the job because of the requirements in excess of the federal and contract standards. The business making rules not laid out in law/contract.
     

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